France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

Thé whole pass sanitaire proposal is on the basis that the details match your ID - and you can be asked to show that at any point. It doesn’t even rate a mention here: everyone carries ID at all times. The only vaguely useful thing about Brexit so far is that Ive had to get a residence permit which serves as ID here.

@VoiceFaceArse yes, sadly no system will ever be perfect. I think it will be interesting looking back in 3-5 years and seeing how each different approach worked.

I’ve had my vaccine but still think it’s not acceptable to charge people for going to a restaurant... Other than for the food itself of course 😅

Why @LucilleTheVampireBat? What is so frightening about people being expected to fulfill their responsibilities to others in society? They can choose not to do so, but they won't be able to go to coffee shops etc for the foreseeable. They can still socialise at home, go for walks, get healthcare, work etc. It is their choice.

@MarshaBradyo I was simply pointing out a difference in cultural approach. It’s a different mindset because it’s a different country and culture, so people are going to be different. Be it trains, ‘unattended’ newspapers or fruit, veg, flower boxes - people here pay for things that they could very easily get for free, out of principle. They leave money behind every time, even though no one is there to see them.

[quote KisstheTeapot14]@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

It's shocking how children and young people are being put at risk from Long Covid disabilities.

Beyond Awful. 'Morally bankrupt'[/quote]
@ KisstheTeapot14

Yes it is reckless and irresponsible but it is what it is. The English government are not by their own omission f*ing hopeless without reason apart from gaslighting and not following their own rules and oh the very small matter of spending billions of tax payer monies we don’t have on their corrupt friends and family but no investment in state schools or more for NHS staff.

With this unofficial herd immunity Petri dish experiment (at your own health risk) - even if a very small percentage of medically vulnerable or less health privilege - would eventually lead to possibly thousands with shorten life long Covid disabilities and competing with finite NHS resources. This is possibly why state schools are super blasé about voluntary guidance regarding requirement of using inaccurate lateral flow home screening testing and avoidance of all sensible pragmatic risk mitigation measures apart from creating an ideal over crowded indoor poor ventilated school environment vector for seeding, incubation and super spreading. Vaccination helps but obviously would require periodic booster top up too. Not sure why vaccination is optional and only for adults as children are now the main spreaders (along with unvaccinated adults） but don’t usually have symptoms and so difficult to prevent super spreading. Private independent fee paying schools are now on summer holidays in my central London locality. State schools still have the rest of July in person schooling because pupils are not testing and so bubbles still “safe”.

I await to see if MPs pile in back to their office workplace and debating chambers maskless with no person proximity distancing but presumably double vaccinated.

France are so much more sensible and dealing with a pandemic from a purer scientific approach if a bit invasive - but needs must to save lives and livelihoods.

@Ooodlesofboodles

Why *@LucilleTheVampireBat*? What is so frightening about people being expected to fulfill their responsibilities to others in society? They can choose not to do so, but they won't be able to go to coffee shops etc for the foreseeable. They can still socialise at home, go for walks, get healthcare, work etc. It is their choice.

I presumed the aim of checking covid vaccination status for restaurants and coffee shops was to encourage people to mix at home instead where the chances of catching covid from someone who is infected are greater.

Other than for the food itself of course

Yes, I suppose we must pay for the food. 😂

To be honest, the way people are being, questioning anyone who doesn’t wear a mask, getting aggressive with them, being intolerant of anyone with a different opinion, etc... staying at home seems like a good option anyway. I’m really fed up of people arguing and thinking their way is the only way and judging others. I find it all quite depressing.

Posted too soon.

I’m not vaccinated, my partner is but we’re both just despairing at humanity at the moment.

[quote EileenGC]@MarshaBradyo I was simply pointing out a difference in cultural approach. It’s a different mindset because it’s a different country and culture, so people are going to be different. Be it trains, ‘unattended’ newspapers or fruit, veg, flower boxes - people here pay for things that they could very easily get for free, out of principle. They leave money behind every time, even though no one is there to see them.[/quote]
Yes and I think there is this feeling people here don’t comply as much and aren’t as orderly. When really we do comply, take up vaccine at high rates, listen to guidelines without much enforcement.

I have lived here half my life and a lot of the stuff on here about U.K. I don’t really recognise. People’s perceptions seem to be based on mn a lot which doesn’t reflect living here.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Agree with your posts generally. Petri dish is exactly right. Its a giant experiment and there will be plenty of losers in this game. Most likely the more disadvantaged according to various health maps I've seen (e.g Manchester)

Sorry, I didn't quite get the point about state schools being blase?

I don't think they have much leeway - short on space and funds to do very much. I do wish schools had been more outspoken and not just pretended it was all OK with the mitigations they could put in place - but I'm pretty sure most people who work for/in state schools don't want to see lots of children getting Covid.

Why would they?

Private schools have had more ability and finance to deal effectively and protect pupils and staff (smaller classes, better facilities, onsite testing from the get go)

@KatharinaRosalie

Yes, we are looking at UK numbers and wondering how it's logical for the government to go 'Yay, record numbers, perfect time to cancel all restrictions and measures!'

Can I give a reminder that England are cancelling restrictions and measures. As far as I know, the other 3 UK nations are being more cautious.

What is so frightening about people being expected to fulfill their responsibilities to others in society?

What do you expect people to do in order to fulfil their responsibilities to society in other areas? Does this "social responsibility" relate only to this one particular virus? Why?

@cindarellasbelly

I doubt these passports will be long-lasting for domestic access. In Ireland, they're very clear they will be a temporary measure to balance the fact that we were hoping to be re-opening based on vaccination rate, but delta means we have to adjust that slightly. So now, re-opening for people already vaccinated: its definitely problematic, and I don't think politically they'll be able to get support for it for longer than a few months.

But yes, take up rates have been huge. I don't know anyone who hasn't been getting a vaccine. The only delay has been accessibility for younger cohorts, and the hypocrisy that many young people work in service industries but won't be able to access them has been a big talking point. However, we've been in lockdown basically Jan-May, and people are absolutely desperate and this is probably the best 'compromise'. The situation in France seems to be v different and all about encouraging uptake.

I don't know if this doesn't have political support. As long as it works out without too many hitches I don't think most people give the slightest shit about people who refuse to get vaccinated. Anyone who could safely get a vaccine but refuses to because they are ultimately too selfish to do what the most vulnerable in society needs from them in an emergency, isn't worth bothering about. If they can't get into restaurants or the cinema or go on holiday, frankly; fuck 'em. They have a right not to get vaccinated, but the rest of us have a right to not have our lives or health curtailed by them. I doubt there are many people at all who care. In fact, I'd almost guarantee that the most people quietly feel that if we did what was needed of us, why should they get away with being so up their own arses.

I also suspect very, very strongly that one of the people who absolutely feels like that in spades, is Leo Varadker. I think he's absolutely chomping at the bit to reward the vaccinated and ensure that those who refuse for no medical reason don't benefit from everyone else doing the right thing.

Oh, I get a tummy ache when I eat strawberries

I cant eat bananas. I end up rolling around screaming in pain. I get the same reaction when i take co codamol. Hence i cant take these things. The pain is indescribable and is all over my back torso and chest. Flippancy like yours proves the point that this is not about caring about others health.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

What is so frightening about people being expected to fulfill their responsibilities to others in society?

What do you expect people to do in order to fulfil their responsibilities to society in other areas? Does this "social responsibility" relate only to this one particular virus? Why?

HIV.

@LucilleTheVampireBat how about you answer my question first eh?

@Itsprobablynotcominghome You think people should have to prove their HIV status to be able to go into a bar/restaurant/club/cinema?

If you want to socialise etc you need to play your part in society to stop the disease spreading

As a woman living on a housing estate perhaps society should have thought about that before "othering" people like me for years. And as well as this as a woman in her 40s im supposed to take a risk to protect a society that has treated certain groups like shit for years.

Mind Blown!

[quote bumbleymummy]@Itsprobablynotcominghome You think people should have to prove their HIV status to be able to go into a bar/restaurant/club/cinema? [/quote]
Don't be obtuse. When responsible people have sex, they do so making the assumption that the other person may have HIV, or other STDs ie, they use a condom. And it's normal, responsible behaviour for people to get a full sexual health check before switching to non-barrier contraceptives. People who are in long term relationships and don't usually protect themselves from diseases are always advised to get tested fro diseases if they discover or strongly suspect their partner has cheated.

@Halfwaytoholiday

If it applies to over 12s, are they able to get the vaccine?

Yes, they can have Pfizer.

Not obtuse at all. They’re not anywhere near the same thing, are they? Terrible example.

@MercyBooth

If you want to socialise etc you need to play your part in society to stop the disease spreading As a woman living on a housing estate perhaps society should have thought about that before "othering" people like me for years. And as well as this as a woman in her 40s im supposed to take a risk to protect a society that has treated certain groups like shit for years.

Mind Blown!

What the actual fuck are you on about? Yes. You take steps to protect others. People in their 80s and 90s who guess what? Are treated way worse in general that those of us at or near middle age. Or people with cystic fibrosis, or upper body paralysis, to whom Covid is almost certainly a death sentence. What is actually wrong with you that you think where you live or being a very average age, makes you somehow so put upon that you have no responsibility to do pretty much almost nothing in order to save the lives of the actually vulnerable??????

@bumbleymummy

Not obtuse at all. They’re not anywhere near the same thing, are they? Terrible example.

No, it's not the same because HIV can't be transmitted by rebreathing some nearby air. Thankfully. But it is the same in that in terms of viral transmission, responsible people assume infection and act accordingly until proven otherwise.

@igelkott2021-

so here in Germany a negative test counts for 24 hours from when you've had it. You can use the toilet inside but you have to wear a mask when walking around inside (and that's the same for people who are eating inside too).

We also still have to wear masks in supermarkets and public transport as well as in doctors' surgeries and hospitals- well in Berlin at least, I'm not sure about the rest of Germany. I am pregnant and they're not recommending pregnant women get the vaccine here so my friends offer to be tested before they meet up with me which I think is a good thing.

At the moment it is not such a big deal because the weather is really nice and most people aren't going to things indoors anyway. We'll have to see how they deal with things in the winter, but a lot of people are being vaccinated here now and the government have been quite measured and systematic in the way they have introduced or removed restrictions with a lot less political rhetoric than in the UK.

For France, they are already talking about lightening the rules for 12-17 yr olds, and possibly delaying some of the imposition of the pass sanitaire in various places. The big aim is to get people off their arses and vaccinated: I think they will pull back on some of the restrictions if the 💉 rate picks up and stays up