Current rules on isolation are counter-productive

[Warhertisuff]

I can't be the only one who isn't doing lateral flow tests or overlooking mild symptoms because of the consequences to, not just my family, but the school community.

For instance, last week my 9 year old son had a headache and sore throat... nothing serious and a good night's sleep meant he was well enough to go to school the following day, and he was fine in the days ahead. I didn't do a LFT or get him tested as, had he been positive, he, and his entire year group, would have missed the last 10 days of school, with all the activities and end of year shows etc.

I took the view that the possible damage caused by him having Covid - if he indeed did have it which he probably didn't - and passing to other children (and other adults who largely would have had the chance to have been vaccinated) was less than having the end of the school year ruined for everyone.

If the rules were similar for other illnesses, which I'd argue they can be now that vaccines have made the impact of Covid more like the flu, then more people would take common sense precautions about keeping their kids off school if unwell.

@Warhertisuff

So you started a post based on nothing then
You mist have had enough belief that covid was likely to start a post basically saying i think my child could have covid but im sending him to school anyway because he has activities in the last few weeks i dont want him to miss.
If there was a vunerable child in class i wouldnt have sent him through.

Either you have deliberately posted rubbish to get a reaction or you are downplaying it now because you realise you should have got child tested

@CeeceeBloomingdale the school closed because covid is now rife. It's an airborne virus, even if every pupil faithfully did their lateral flows twice a week and isolated accordingly, it would still be prevalent. Indeed in some ways that would probably be worse, as it would be a slow drip feed over the term with longer time off.

It's very sad that someone died from cancer, but they didn't die because of covid so I'm not sure what the relevance is.

There was a mass isolation of sixth formers at DD's school from one girl testing positive who decided she didn't want to disrupt her learning/socialising with mates!

@rookiemere it's relevant purely as an example of how the virus can be passed on to vulnerable people. I know of another parent battling breast cancer, her catching it could be the difference between life and death.

I am 99% certain of how my DD caught it, and it was from someone not isolating immediately. I notified school by email as requested as soon as my daughter tested positive but they didn't acknowledge my email for 48 hours and her contacts have still not been notified to isolate. We have of course told every one we have contact details for. I haven't heard anything from test and trace to ask for contact details although luckily her only contacts are at school so there isn't anyone else to inform. It's a shambles.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

There was a mass isolation of sixth formers at DD's school from one girl testing positive who decided she didn't want to disrupt her learning/socialising with mates!

I’m not surprised anymore. Just saddened.

Just in the last few days I’ve seen posts re not testing or failing to adhere to isolation so children don’t miss school, people don’t miss their holidays, people can work etc.

Just in the last few days I’ve seen posts re not testing or failing to adhere to isolation so children don’t miss school, people don’t miss their holidays, people can work etc.

So the current system isn’t working.

Fuck all point in being ‘saddened’, more important to consider the OP’s original point. Would a different approach get better results?

We were told at the start of the year that things would improve once the most vulnerable were vaccinated. This has now happened, but our DCs having their education disrupted is still taking place in spades.
I do feel genuinely sorry for people and children who are vulnerable and haven't had the vaccine (provided that's because they can't rather than won't) but logistically this is a tiny percentage of the population, the obvious solution is to provide online education for those DCs rather than forcing every single school age DC into this endless pattern of self isolation for something that now seems to mainly present as a sore throat and headache.

This virus is MOST contagious in the 2 days before and first few days after symptoms appear. Many, many people are out and about at that stage and that is why this virus has so successfully spread.

Blaming people and attaching stigma to those who test positive is an utter nonsense.

If we genuinely feel that the risk from this virus is so great, then proper lockdowns are the only way to completely avoid it. But you have to look at the risk vs benefit. Right now, the risks are much lower and benefits of getting back to normal life are what is being focussed on.

We are asking people to do the impossible - lose income, constantly lose money through booking things or making plans that could be cancelled at any moment with no refund, deprive their dc of education, exercise and social opportunities etc etc for an illness that is mostly 'like hayfever' or 'a summer cold' to the extent that they don't know they have it.

If we as a society feel that we cannot risk this virus being spread then we need to go back to lockdowns and we need to change isolating, testing and messaging around the mildest of common symptoms. We need to put in place a compensation scheme, support and infrastructure so that the cost burden is not placed on individuals. Refunds and cancellations need to be easy and immediate etc.

Or we need to accept this.

But you can't have this complete muddle and expect it to work.

@rookiemere

We were told at the start of the year that things would improve once the most vulnerable were vaccinated. This has now happened, but our DCs having their education disrupted is still taking place in spades. I do feel genuinely sorry for people and children who are vulnerable and haven't had the vaccine (provided that's because they can't rather than won't) but logistically this is a tiny percentage of the population, the obvious solution is to provide online education for those DCs rather than forcing every single school age DC into this endless pattern of self isolation for something that now seems to mainly present as a sore throat and headache.

Online education doesn't work though...we've had hundreds of posts on here to say as much during the lockdowns. If it isn't adequate for every other child in the UK why for the vulnerable kids and their siblings (siblings of CEV children can't go to school either because the risk of bringing covid home is too high) I have very young children who don't sit at desks doing work all day so therefore online education doesn't work and they lose the opportunity to socialise with their peers which is more important at this age than the school work itself.

@CroydianSlip totally agree.

The real solution to the school issue, (given thast those who may be contagious can be asymptomatic so CEV are always taking this risk if they go into school), would be for vweyone to be able to go into school, but for the school building stone spacious and well ventilated, and for groups to be smaller and more spread out. The government could have puts its money into this and it hasn't. They've instead encouraged the sort of moral blame game going on on this thread and decided to let the little people tell each other off for contracting and asymptomatically spreading a highly transmissible disease.

Would a more workable solution be to continue to push lateral flow tests, and if someone tests positive (and from subsequent PCR) then the school is notified, and those whose children are CEV or have CEV relatives are supported to remain at home whilst the outbreak passes through the school. Other children/staff stay off if they are too ill to attend as they would for any other illness.

I think people would be more likely to comply with this, and it seems much more proportionate. It still protects the CEV (arguably more effectively as compliance would be higher) and should mean that the endless "whack a mole" which only prolongs the process for everyone, comes to a close sooner as the school generates 'herd immunity' helping it to avoid massive outbreaks moving forwards.

It doesn't seem any more inconvenient for the CEV than is already the case as they'd have to isolate anyway under the current process.

There is a world of difference from asymptamatic spread and deliberately choosing not to test a child that you have enough concern that its covid to start a thread about and wont risk 24 off for a test because you are wirried it would be possitive and your child would miss a few activities.

This is the difference of a pack lunch accudently have a trace amount of nut in a nut free school and a parent encouraging a child to sneak nut dust into the alergic gilds drink just to see if it real allergy 🙄

Requirements are likely to change but they havent yet

@CroydianSlip

The real solution to the school issue, (given thast those who may be contagious can be asymptomatic so CEV are always taking this risk if they go into school), would be for vweyone to be able to go into school, but for the school building stone spacious and well ventilated, and for groups to be smaller and more spread out. The government could have puts its money into this and it hasn't. They've instead encouraged the sort of moral blame game going on on this thread and decided to let the little people tell each other off for contracting and asymptomatically spreading a highly transmissible disease.

I'm not sure that really would help in the end. Apart from it being extraordinarily expensive to reconfigure every school in the country to accommodate this (£100s of billions) , it would be impossible to implement quickly... we don't have close to the construction industry capacity to do something so Herculean.

And all it would do would be to slow the spread somewhat... It would never stop Covid's spread in schools, especially Delta. £100s of billions put towards an impossible task that would inevitably take many years to complete that would mitigate the pace of spread a bit, but by the time it's completed it would be too late anyway, doesn't seem sensible at all.

In my opinion, we need to treat Covid like the flu now, with the exception of some additional measures for the CEV whilst we pass through an infection wave.

One of the things that has scared me the most since covid, is realising just how selfish some people are.

But sweetness, some people have drawn parallels with other issues, like climate change for eg..

We are in the grips of a climate crisis. One way of helping would be for you to never get a flight again and to stop using your car.

Climate activists would call you selfish and irresponsible for not heeding their calls to make drastic and restrictive changes to your lifestyle for the greater good of society.

We are at the same stage with covid in a way. We are asking people to take personally damaging, restrictive and inconvenient actions, 'for the greater good,' over and over again. Just like climate change the risks have become a bit vague, and the links between out own actions and the ahrn to others a bit less clear cut. Meanwhile, just like climate change we see others' who are arguably a greater issue, not modifying their behaviour at all.

It's all very interesting from a societal and psychological pov. Just calling people selfish doesn't sort the issues. You have to look at what needs to happen and how best to get there.

Of course some climate change isnt quite the same as currently the gov havent required people to not use their cars. The current regs around covid should still be followed until they are changed

@Covidworries missing over a weeks education is about a lot more than missing some activities, this is deliberate minimisation in the same way that those who decried anyone who wanted lockdown to end as just wanting to go to the pub.

My DS is in an exam year come the Autumn term, missing almost two weeks of schooling at a crucial stage could be disastrous. Obviously if he has symptoms and is positive then that's what will happen, if they're still insisting on everyone in a bubble isolating, then that's the third year of education ruined for many DCs.

I agree simply saying people are selfish doesn't help to solve the problem, but I despair. We need more education on all issues, covid, climate change, drugs, gangs, starvation, overpopulation and so many more. But, op had direct control over her personal situation and enough education on what she should have done and was clear on her reason for not doing so.

The current regs around covid say not to pcr test for symptoms that aren't a new continuous cough (with specifics as to what they mean by continuous), changes to or loss of sense of taste/smell and high temp.

This thread is full of people blaming those who aren't pcr testing and isolating every time someone in the house has a mild headache.

People are not overwhelming selfish. Look at what everyone has and is still going giving up for 'the greater good', look at what key workers have done, look at how much adaptation and dedication has gone on to keep community services and activities running etc.

Just writing everyone off for wanting a more reasonable conversation about how we mange this risk vs benefit situation is patronising and unhelpful.

@CroydianSlip

.... Climate activists would call you selfish and irresponsible for not heeding their calls to make drastic and restrictive changes to your lifestyle for the greater good of society.

I agree. There comes a tipping point for most people when, whereas they can see the benefits of actions in isolation (eg giving up your car), they realise that there are other factors at play that are really driving the issue at hand (India building new coal power stations) and realise that these actions don't really have a significant impact, even if everyone did them. So they don't make the changes the "activists" are demanding as it simply feels like an act of self-flagellation and wearing sackcloth and ashes to make a moral point rather taking a practical, worthwhile action that will lead to change.... and, of course, we're all selfish to a greater or less extent.

But sweetness, we all have enough education and control to stop using plastic, to save all our grey water, to compost, to mend our clothes instead of buying new etc etc.

We have a reached a point where lots of people are making decisions that are different to the official guidance because their risk vs benefit calculation has shifted. Policy makers need to look at this and work out what they need to achieve and how best to achieve it, whilst accepting, as they do for other situations ons, that just telling people off doesn't work.

The op suggested that if testing wasn't so high stakes more people may do it more. We could look at that and discuss options. Not just despair.

@Sweetnessandbite

But, op had direct control over her personal situation and enough education on what she should have done and was clear on her reason for not doing so.

Yes, I did, and i took the view the stopping Covid is not the be and end all... Other things are more important.

Good post @CroydianSlip . We have sacrificed and the vast majority of people have obeyed often arbitrary rules for well over a year now. Those who made the rules are breaking them through nifty loopholes ( travel without quarantining for the elite) and demonstrating egregious disparities- in Scotland now 6000 football fans can meet up without even a negative lateral flow test.

Also I'm fed up with the school mitigation arguments as a ruse to blame our current government. Scottish government seems to position itself as socialist ( I assume that's why I'm paying more tax anyway) and no plans for more ventilation or reduced class sizes.

We need a workable solution if not now, then at least in place for next term.

Yes I agree with you but in this specific case op thought a positive case was possible and decided to risk access unknowingly for the rest of the year group