Current rules on isolation are counter-productive

[Warhertisuff]

I can't be the only one who isn't doing lateral flow tests or overlooking mild symptoms because of the consequences to, not just my family, but the school community.

For instance, last week my 9 year old son had a headache and sore throat... nothing serious and a good night's sleep meant he was well enough to go to school the following day, and he was fine in the days ahead. I didn't do a LFT or get him tested as, had he been positive, he, and his entire year group, would have missed the last 10 days of school, with all the activities and end of year shows etc.

I took the view that the possible damage caused by him having Covid - if he indeed did have it which he probably didn't - and passing to other children (and other adults who largely would have had the chance to have been vaccinated) was less than having the end of the school year ruined for everyone.

If the rules were similar for other illnesses, which I'd argue they can be now that vaccines have made the impact of Covid more like the flu, then more people would take common sense precautions about keeping their kids off school if unwell.

I work in a school and we’ve been told that because we signed up to LFT in April, we are required to take them and log them twice a week throughout the summer holidays. A lot of staff are doing this to protect others within their school community so I fail to see why others can’t do the same.

You were always going to get slaughtered for this op but anyone who thinks this isn’t going on has lost touch with reality

So it’s happening, people are doing this.

Instead of entrenching yourself further in the “stick to the rules you selfish bastard” approach, it’s probably time to change the rules to something more realistic and manageable for most normal people.

Wow OP, I don't think you are the only one. We are in a similar situation except we don't have any "testable" symptoms. My son has a cold. We have however done a lateral flow which came back negative for the whole household. Reading that the delta variant is basically a cold makes me wonder if we should just book a PCR....

I agree that lots will now ignore/dismiss very mild symptoms. A cold type illness that includes a cough has been doing the rounds in my dd’s class - no one off and no one has bothered testing as far as I know. I think there is probably also a tendency to think that if others aren’t testing for the same symptoms then why bother? I’m not saying that this attitude is right, but the fact is that people are extremely fed up and have started to care less than they did.

All this isolation is doing is delaying the spread, not stopping it, and society needs to get back to normal. The "Covid cat is out of the bag", with most areas well over 100 cases per 100,000, this will only increase come 19 July. We might as well let it spread now, rather than continue with this futile "whack a mole"'approach that's only going to delay spread, not stop it. If we let it spread, we'll likely end up with herd immunity much sooner - which is when the CEV will really be safer - than keeping it bubbling away for years, never containing it but never allowing population immunity.

hamstersarse, but by sending a child with symptoms, she is potentially spreading whatever he has, it may not be covid, but if others get symptoms, it may cause disruption anyway. Not everyone thinks it's ok to ignore symptoms.
If she decided not to test but keep him off, fine, but sending a child with symptom without testing is selfish, imo.
And it's been clearly told on the news etc, that's how this new variant is spreading.

I have such mixed feelings on this.

DD8 woke up yesterday with a sore throat so we kept her off school as it seemed the right thing to do to minimise spread of ANY virus. No one needs children off school at the moment!

She was absolutely fine all day. Running around the garden playing frisbee, played with toys, ate as normal and didn’t complain of a sore throat again.

She has woken up this morning feeling fine, a little snotty but no sore throat or any other symptoms.

She has already mentioned that the two girls she sits next to in class have horrid colds & are sneezing & blowing their noses a lot!

So, do we put children through a PCR for the odd ailment? Our school have been very laid back throughout and have not issued lists of symptoms to keep children off for apart from the main 3.
This will be my daughters 3rd cold since September.

For context I would consider myself a sensible person who considers others and have supported & stuck to all the rules/guidance throughout.
I have experienced anxiety for the first time in my life though and this whole worrying about every symptom is starting to send me backwards.

I’m a teacher who has just had Covid. I’ve only had one vaccination, and the virus knocked me for six- I’ve never felt so poorly.I think it’s really selfish to send your child into school if you genuinely believe they could have the virus- you’ve said yourself that you know the symptoms have changed. My first symptom was a crushing headache, followed by a sore throat and runny nose, the fever and loss of smell and taste didn’t come until days later.

I agree OP that lots of people are avoiding asymptomatic testing for these reasons.

I also think that the isolation rules have become counterproductive due to the impact they are having on the NHS workforce, either through symptomless staff isolating having been tracked and traced, or having to take time off to cover childcare for isolating children. This is a major issue for the hospital I work at certainly, and it's incredibly frustrating that services are being interrupted as hundreds of symptomless and fully vaccinated staff are unable to come to work.

Well thanks OP, my DC has Covid and is ill due to parents with attitudes like yours. Parents sending their DC in has resulted in cases spreading like wildfire among DDs year group with a domino effect meaning siblings in other schools, teachers, parents and so many are impacted. So many are sick or isolating that every end of term event is cancelled anyway. We are now all
isolating, missing work and other things planned for the next 10 days.

@Cookiecrisps

I work in a school and we’ve been told that because we signed up to LFT in April, we are required to take them and log them twice a week throughout the summer holidays. A lot of staff are doing this to protect others within their school community so I fail to see why others can’t do the same.

LTF are optional not mandatory.

@Warhertisuff

Ah yes who cares if others get ill, so long as your child doesn't miss out on the end of year activities.

They would all miss out.... the year group sent home.

Continuing to treat Covid in the way we did pre-vaccine is disproportionate.

Until the rules change it's all pointless anyways. Because if he had it and spread it, other parents that would follow the rules would test, and then they end up self isolating anyways.

@Warhertisuff

Ah yes who cares if others get ill, so long as your child doesn't miss out on the end of year activities.

They would all miss out.... the year group sent home.

Continuing to treat Covid in the way we did pre-vaccine is disproportionate.

And what if one of them has a serious medical condition and would be at high risk of serious illness or death if they catch covid? That would definitely out a downer on the class end of term activities.

Of course you shouldn't have sent him in when you thought he might have Covid. There is a reason that high numbers of kids are catching covid. Imagine if his bubble is closed now due to a positive test - I hope you'll blame yourself and feel guilty.

So DD is currently off having a pcr because she spiked a high temp yesterday eve. She feels fine this morning but we still have to test and isolate while we wait for the results. Meanwhile she may miss her rearranged birthday party (tomorrow) if test results aren’t back in time, we are missing a family lunch today and wedding reception tonight, missed a dinner last night, missing the kids’ activities this morning… That’s just because of waiting for the test. Even though she is now perfectly well in herself.

If she is positive then obviously a whole load more missing out for us and her classmates. Though if she is positive then at least there is some justification for the isolations. It’s the stuff we will miss while waiting for the test results that is especially upsetting as I really doubt she has covid.

I agree that the isolation rules are very likely to put people off testing, especially now when there is so much more going on socially that we will miss as a consequence.

@rubbishatballet

I agree OP that lots of people are avoiding asymptomatic testing for these reasons.

I also think that the isolation rules have become counterproductive due to the impact they are having on the NHS workforce, either through symptomless staff isolating having been tracked and traced, or having to take time off to cover childcare for isolating children. This is a major issue for the hospital I work at certainly, and it's incredibly frustrating that services are being interrupted as hundreds of symptomless and fully vaccinated staff are unable to come to work.

I'll repeat for you too: letting covid spread is not the answer to this problem. While the law says that close contacts must isolate, sending kids in with suspected covid is the stupidest plan about. You could easily allow it to spread to the whole school and dozens of workplaces. Get them tested or keep them home.

Our local education authority has told us that for any of the following symptoms we must get a PCR test not a LFT:

Head ache
Sore throat
Upset tummy or tummy ache
Fever
Cough
Fatigue
Aches and pains

Your logic is flawed though because sending him to school with potential Covid or any other transmissible illness means he would pass it on and then someone more rule abiding will go and get their child a PCR, thus triggering the whole class isolation/miss end of term celebrations anyway. It doesn't go away by you ignoring it?

OP your logic would work if we lived in a world where everyone had had two doses of a vaccine, we had a vaccine that was 100% effective and everyone was able to have it. But that simply isn't true. Many teachers and parents of young children are only just getting their first dose of a vaccine. Even if everyone in the UK had been double dosed and the vaccines were all 98% effective (which they aren't) that would still leave over a million people that they aren't effective for. Then you have the people who are immunocompromised, who even if they could have the vaccine it probably wouldn't work for very well. Let's hope none of the people your son has come into contact with has a parent or grandparent undergoing cancer treatment or having had an organ transplant for example. And then there is long covid, which is a thing. Someone in my child's school, in her 20s, no underlying health conditions, slim etc caught covid at Easter. She is still off work. And you could argue that that was before vaccines, but the age group she is in she would have only just have had chance to have one dose, and it would be unlikely that she would be the 3 weeks post vaccine at this stage to even give her the minimal protection you get from one dose with the delta variant.

Now I understand you have very selfishly looked at your son and only seen how this may affect his enjoyment of the last few days at school. But I do hope your actions don't result in one of his classmates being more negatively impacted than just missing out on some parties.

We recently all got tested, none of us had any of the official symptoms but we did have cold symptoms which as you say are more common for the new variant.

I did debate in my head whether we should get tested. After all I had to lie to get a PCR. I knew that a positive test would cause disruption to not just as but to others as well.

I knew that the need to self isolate would probably disrupt plans.

However, at the end of the day either though I suspected it was just a cold, the thought that what if it is Covid stayed on my mind.

I was right, it was just a cold. All tests were negative. We got our results back really quickly so we were only isolating for less than a day.

During isolating my husband and I did grumble. We are looking forward to the day that we don’t have to analyse every single symptom.

However, at the moment we haven’t reached that.

Trust me I will be glad to see that back of isolating and tests when they are no longer needed.

@Stevenage689 fine, but the question was whether the current isolation rules are counterproductive. Whether it's right or wrong that people are avoiding asymptomatic (or any symptoms that are not 'mandatory three') testing, the fact that this is clearly happening suggests that there may be an unintended effect.

And there is definitely an issue in relation to the NHS workforce, about which I know for a fact that representations are being made up the chain from a trust CEO/local system level.

Oh my god. I do hope your child isbt in my CEV childs class. My child missed the whole yr at school due to shielding and medical advise. Went back at Easter due to LFT and masks and quick result of PRC tests meaning that the risk was lower and both the specialists and ourselfs felt that gains currently outeeigh risks.
Of course non of us expected selfish parents to send their child to school not knowing if its covid or not just so thier child didnt miss anything

If you tested your child would likely have missed a day waiting for results. If negative they would have then returned to school. If positive they would have then isolated stopping the spread. Their teacher wouldnt have visited their friend on chemo at the weekend. Their CEV friend would be able to be monitered carefully and had prompt treatment. The TA would have not spent 5 minutes helping your child with a task and catching covid which killed her CEV husband.

You have no idea what sending a positive child to school could do.... yoy also admit your child could be positive, if your community is now badly hit you wont ever know if that started with your child.... it may not have as child could be negative BUT you will never know for sure.
I hope the guilt follows you forever.

I pray the parents in my childs class are not as selfish.

Yes the risk will remain after restrictions are liftwd BUT for now the rules offer a buffer so should be followed

I don’t agree with you OP in terms of not testing to avoid getting a positive result. I think while we are still rolling out the vaccinations we should stick to the rules. It will be chaos if everyone makes up their own rules.

I do agree though that we need to have a think about the isolation rules and if they are proportionate.

I’m sorry to everyone on this thread who has been ill with covid or their family member has, but having covid is not the only problem in life that matters. These isolation rules cause significant hardship - whether it’s a family losing out on income and not being able to feed their kids, to NHS procedures being cancelled as parents are having to isolate. My daughter is teething and spiked a fever for the billionth time as she always does when teething. But we follow the rules and isolate and get a test - great, but in the meantime there are cancer patients listed for surgery whose doubled jabbed surgeon can’t attend the hospital to operate on them because his toddler is teething.

We have to weigh all this against the fact that people are still catching covid and decide what’s proportionate. It isn’t a proper response to OP to say “BUT PEOPLE WILL CATCH COVID” because yeah they will, but we have to decide what level of suffering we are willing to inflict on other people to reduce the chance of that.

If you tested your child would likely have missed a day waiting for results

OP shouldn’t have got a PCR test for the symptoms her child had though. In fact she would be breaking the rules if she did so because her child doesn't have a testable symptom.

I also understand where the OP is coming from, but we aren’t quite there yet. And I’m saying that as somebody who thinks a lot of the response to covid has been hysterical and disproportionate.

I feel that anybody with symptoms should be tested and isolated. I strongly disagree with the current ‘self isolation’ circus that is robbing kids of their education and freedom when the vast, vast majority are perfectly healthy and don’t have this virus.

The current rules are ridiculous in the new ‘post vaccine’ world. I suspect they will end on July 19th. It’s still very irresponsible not to get a child tested for the reasons outlined (to avoid others isolating) but I really understand why people feel like this.

As PP said, you haven't actually broken any rules or done anything wrong. You should be LFTing him anyway as he is under 11, and he doesn't have the symptoms for a PCR test, so according to the rules you should be sending him in as normal anyway.