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Is it actually going to be all over on the 19th?!

101 replies

Rainydays55 · 30/06/2021 07:00

The press seemed to have really changed its tone the last few days and the message seems to be clear that after the 19th we will just live with it even if cases are 30/40k a day by then.
I get it, especially if hospitalisations and deaths remain low, it just seems different to what other counties are doing with bringing in more restrictions if they are seeing an increase. I know our vaccine programme has been more successful but do you think this will really be the end of it from next month?! No going backwards in the autumn? Would be great to think it is but I can’t quite believe it!

OP posts:
1forAll74 · 30/06/2021 15:38

The big mad rush out of people, after the 19th July, might well cause some problems again, but hopefully not !

PrincessNutNuts · 30/06/2021 16:05

@RosaMoline

Chris Whitty has spoken today to support the 19th. It’s over.
I would be very surprised if Chris Whitty said Covid was "over."

Did he in fact say anything of the sort?

Has he been misunderstood or mis-quoted?

Because he must know that hospitalisations will start rising again soon, and that we have another long hard winter ahead.

I could understand if he thought people needed a short burst of freedom before it all kicks off again.

But no way on god's earth did the government get Chris Whitty to say covid is "over."

Micemakingclothes · 30/06/2021 16:15

I would try to think of it not in terms of “over”, but in terms of “relaxing”.

It’s better for my own mental health to think of all of this as a marathon where we have some parts that are easier than others. We have at least a couple more years ahead of us, but with any luck there is a nice flat bit of road here to enjoy and recharge. We’ve learned things along the way and our muscles are tired but warmed up so the next hill won’t be so bad.

80sMum · 30/06/2021 16:20

It depends on how you define "over" doesn't it?
On 19th July, lockdown restrictions will be over, but Covid 19 will be far from finished. It will be with us for the foreseeable future, will continue to make some people seriously ill and will continue to be a cause of death for some people, particularly during the winter.

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2021 17:42

Theres articles in the news today suggesting that Whitty supports the government plan to lift restrictions on the 19th. From what I read this includes the end of school bubble and the end of isolation (instead replaced by testing) for those who are fully vaccinating.

In other words in the medium term the policy shift is from isolating to testing because we have the capacity and ability to now do this (we didn't even a few months ago) and because the risk of both transmission and serious cases for those double vaccinated is much much lower (we are currently at 62% of adults double vaccinated and 85% who have had a single dose). We've still got 3 weeks to run on that before the 19th (incidently although protection isn't immediate and has been cited as 2 to 3 weeks before its at full strength, I think it tends to be shorter in younger patients).

Last night I was hearing that the stream of people booking in for jabs is now beginning to slow - however we are already at 85% so you would actually expect that at this point. We are above the target we had at the stage of the vaccination programme so anything higher is a bonus really. This is cracking - and I expect us to be at least 10 to 15 percentage points higher than a lot of other western countries and will end up with a vaccination rate which is the envy of the world.

Thats the context to where vaccinations are at. This is all good.

Whitty has stressed on previously that cases will be higher on the 19th than they were on the day of the delay announcement. So cases rising is not unexpected nor outside what was anticipated. Infact its the opposite.

What was expected a few weeks ago was for cases to rise more than they actually have - together with hospitalisations. Instead, it turns out the places they were most concerned about had just peaked and many of the places that were just behind them have now peaked too. Today there is talk that Scotland has now peaked for cases.

The latest today is that covid deaths for the last week appear to have dropped more than expected, whilst cases have continued to rise - suggesting that the vaccines push has had effect.

Whitty did however temper all this by saying that the winter will be still challenging.

Other SAGE scientists have said we have a window of opportunity to relax restrictions to reduce other problems going into winter (basically they are worried about childhood illnesses and covid cases peaking mid winter at the worst possible moment and overwhelming services). If we don't go now, we'd potentially need restrictions throughout autumn into winter, is the argument some are making.

I do think this is what SAGE are now really afraid of - no covid - but health issues as a knock on effect of restrictions now creating an alternative crisis.

There's been reports in the last fortnight about how GPs, the ambulance service and A&E are ALL struggling to meet demand at a time of year this is unheard of and its unprecidented for all to be in such trouble (normally its only one service at a time).

I think its a compelling argument.

The positive stuff on covid is coming from all the right places and is encouraging though does come with a note of caution. Its all incredibly reasonable (unsurprisingly).

However the people who were listening very closely to these voices have suddenly decided they are no longer reliable because they want to continue with the status quo because they aren't able to process the change because emotion and anxiety has taken over.

Honestly, we have to move forward. The unintended indirect side effects are the things that are becoming concerning and this is what numerous voices in SAGE itself is now saying. This isn't coming from anti-lockdown campaigners.

We would do well to heed these concerns and recognise if they are saying that, then we HAVE to go ahead with the 19th.

I am yet to hear an alternative suggest which is realistic on all fronts and acknowledges the indirect knock on effects of covid as well as the direct ones. Instead there is a shed ton of emotive language flying about all round and frankly any time I see a point put across which uses this crap rather than putting forward a compelling argument based on reasoning and evidence alone I'm now switching off. Cos its utter bollocks.

The number of people who are DETERMINED to say that its too soon to end restrictions even though its coming from some very sane and very rational scientists who throughout have been rather more cautious than the government itself really alarms me.

There does need to be a concerted effort to wake people up and inform them that we are leaving crisis mode and going into management mood.

BarbarianMum · 30/06/2021 17:49

We know from last year that people catching COVID in the summer tend to have much milder cases (probably infected by lower viral loads). So better to keep vaccinating and open up now and hope be that and a whole load if mild infections we go into next winter with a higher degree of herd immunity.

HelloMissus · 30/06/2021 17:53

I do also think that lots of students have put off getting their jab because they’re enjoying the last bits of term post exams and don’t want to get side effects. They’ll definitely get it when they head home. And it will be easier to get their second jab in the same place.
Add on to that that lots are self isolating too.

CeeJay81 · 30/06/2021 17:55

I really hope they don't stop face masks on public transport, we've got a long train journey on 19th and then again on 23rd. I'd be more worried without masks that's for sure. A bit of the journey is in Wales and Scotland too. So will see what happens with the restrictions on all 3 of them.

BarbarianMum · 30/06/2021 17:58

@HelloMissus according to the students I know they are all queuing up for vaccination because they want their lives back. Maybe the truth us somewhere bw the two?

Cafeaulait27 · 30/06/2021 18:09

Great post @RedToothBrush

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2021 18:12

@CeeJay81

I really hope they don't stop face masks on public transport, we've got a long train journey on 19th and then again on 23rd. I'd be more worried without masks that's for sure. A bit of the journey is in Wales and Scotland too. So will see what happens with the restrictions on all 3 of them.
Ultimately no one is stopping you from wearing a mask.

I strongly expect legal restrictions will be removed but there will be no compulsion for everyone to do this.

I expect a sizeable number of people to continue with them for sometime.

I certainly won't be ditching mine.

CeeJay81 · 30/06/2021 18:28

@RedToothBrush
I won't be ditching mine but the idea of masks is more for the benefit of others. So being on a train full of unmasked people is not very relaxing to us. Those unmasked people are putting others at risk. I'm glad me and hubby are double vaccinated.

Canigooutyet · 30/06/2021 18:36

Just because things start to ease up doesn't mean you also have to stop. If you want to carry on wearing a mask, no-one is going to stop you. You could have worn a mask before last year to protect you from airborne viruses and taken whatever steps to not spread things around.

nordica · 30/06/2021 18:39

Masks mainly protect other people. How have people still not understood this after all this time?

The best protection comes from us both wearing a mask, but if you are infected and not wearing a mask, then my mask only offers me minimal protection (unless it's specifically an FFP3 hospital grade mask fitted properly).

LouLou198 · 30/06/2021 18:42

I'm not sure, we have had the goal posts moved so many times. 3 weeks to stop the NHS to becoming overwhelmed.... it will all be over by Christmas.....

ineedaholidaynow · 30/06/2021 20:07

@LouLou198 would you have been happier if they had only put in restrictions for the first few weeks last March/April and then went back to normal? I know this Government have been pretty crap but even with an amazing Government I assume goalposts have a tendency to move in a pandemic

YukoandHiro · 30/06/2021 20:08

Doubt it. But really I've no idea. I can't follow the thread anymore

YukoandHiro · 30/06/2021 20:09

@DinosaurDiana There will still be insolation, just no distancing measures

wasthataburp · 30/06/2021 20:21

I really hope so but it is very hard to believe considering how much we have been lied to in the past. We can only wait and see

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 30/06/2021 20:26

Because he must know that hospitalisations will start rising again soon, and that we have another long hard winter ahead.

No reason why he 'must' know this at all.

bumpetybumpbump · 30/06/2021 20:28

@RedToothBrush you should post that on all the covid threads. In fact can you do the next press conference instead of Boris?

HelloMissus · 30/06/2021 20:30

Barbarian I’ve two students.
One got his jab at the first possible moment. His sister has delayed hers due to a self isolation and a big social event. But she’ll get it. No doubt.

Puppylucky · 30/06/2021 20:40

Fantastic post RTB!

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2021 21:19

@nordica

Masks mainly protect other people. How have people still not understood this after all this time?

The best protection comes from us both wearing a mask, but if you are infected and not wearing a mask, then my mask only offers me minimal protection (unless it's specifically an FFP3 hospital grade mask fitted properly).

Correct

HOWEVER

What people are also forgetting is the decreased risk of catching covid due to the vaccine - particularly if you are double doses.

THEN

If you are double dosed the risk of you being seriously ill if you do catch it goes down

THEN

A mask is more for the protection of others, BUT it still offers a small amount of protection.

From the beginning it was pointed out that multiple layers of protection help us all to be protected.

Where we are at now, is with layers of invisible protection due to the vaccine. The risk compared with just a few months ago for double dosed people is vastly reduced. We aren't just walking around with masks or no masks like we were.

Yes its wise to be sensible, but at the same time we also need to get our heads around the fact that the risk that existed just a few months ago is no longer there.

In our heads we have conditioned ourselves to the idea of this risk, and I think thats one that is psychologically difficult for us to get our heads around overnight.

Certainly its part of the reason I am relucant to ditch my mask anytime soon. A lot of people are going to need time to make that adjustment.

Its also why I think a lot of people won't ditch masks straight away, because they aren't ready to take what amounts to many as a leap of faith as thats what it almost is really.

User135644 · 30/06/2021 21:22

I think it more or less will as the government are backing themselves into a corner in how hard they're briefing it. July 19th through August will be relatively normal.

How long it stays that way is anyone's guess. Hopefully the vaccines do their job and that'll be that.

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