Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

If it is shown to help then it could be quite simple to campaign for them.

@RubyFowler

I think the point is a poster claims that people didn't care for children before and now they do. How on earth that poster can possibly know whether individuals care for children or not. So many sweeping statements. Of course if one poster says people didn't care before and now people do it doesn't make her correct. It's just her opinion. People then try to say what is different to last November (lots of things are actually very different now - I won't repeat what is different now because it is swept away as 'irrelevant'. Many people have tried to say that.

So I think some people feel best to just let some people shout their opinions and dismissal of others as uncaring (unless it suits them) and ignore them now. It's all a bit pointless anyway since the decisions that matter don't get made here on a chat forum. The call for children to stop isolating now that most adults have had at least one vaccine was heard and probably that will stop in September.

I am sure that the vast majority of parents do care for their children despite what one or two people say. It's not selfish to want to stop the isolations now that many are vaccinated, it's not selfish to need to go to work to pay bills and feed and house a family. It's not selfish to expect children that are in the vast amount of cases not really affected by covid to have an education and social interaction.

Anyway, I think I will totally hide threads from some posters since a bit pointless, they go nowhere and don't help the overall situation for anyone.

Thanks @RubyFowler good summary. I’d lost track!

Yes I think that’s the point. What were we, as parents supposed to do last Nov/Dec? I was just pleased the children were at school and it really was ‘head down and try to get to Christmas’.

I very much wanted them to go back earlier in Feb as I think schools should have been prioritised over everything else. I’m pleased they went back in March though as I know some on here were saying after Easter which would have been ridiculous.

"And I'm not sure how anyone can tell who was outraged or concerned about what at what point anymore. Its been a long old 16 months. We're all exhausted. Its been shit for all of us."

This really.

Also a good sunmary @AliceLivesHere

Maybe it’s just a ranty post and there’s no point in getting drawn in to discussions over what we all should have done in Nov/Dec.

I think most people agree isolations for healthy kids need to stop now.

Summary not sunmary

I can definitely agree and sympathise with Noble that schools are woefully underfunded and have been let down repeatedly. And so consequently are children, families, communities etc.
And I think the government do it knowing that individuals involved will bend over backwards to make it work, those individuals being both teachers/school staff and parents.
I don't know about where you live, but round here the local community and businesses stepped up massively to fill the gap left by the whole free school meals thing. And in a way when we do that, we let the government off the hook from providing what they should. Of course not stepping up would result in suffering, so people do what's needed.

I've gone off point now I think!

Another element in the mass transmission/bubbles bursting/isolation in schools in the autumn term, leading to schools remaining closed after xmas for several months was the govt refusal to permit schools, LAs or MATs design a ways to deliver the curriculum that would mitigate risks in schools considerably.

The govt would not permit any type of blended learning, even for secondary (primary is different as more childcare issues). Schools could have had from March - September to design blended learning/ part-time schooling or whatever you want to call it - from September, supported obviously by the tech that the government promise repeatedly (and never delivered).

Different approaches would have worked for different schools and communities. Different approaches would have worked for different children.

Oh, and masks. Unlike pretty much every other school in every other country.

And yes RubyFowler teachers, other school staff, parents and local communities certainly stepped up to fill the gaping caverns where governmental initiatives should have been.

One possible thing that would have been helpful in the autumn was not to hurl abuse at school staff describing the woeful situations in school and refuse to engage with the ONS data which showed that secondary school children were the most infected subset of the population. And consider that pushing on until Xmas was what was driving the transmission rate up, resulting in school closures in the New Year.

One possible thing that would have been helpful during school closures this year would have not been to weaponise 'vulnerable and SEN children' as the reason that schools shouldn't close/re-open immediately, then completely forget about them as soon as they weren't convenient to make an argument with.

Not directed at anyone on this thread btw, general points.

Blended learning is utterly horrific and I am not surprised it wasn’t popular.

Where did blended learning actually happen though (as opposed to fully remote learning?) I know we did it in Scotland for about a month in total.

Blended learning is indeed horrific, but possibly less so that children missing weeks/months of school having SI after SI.

Followed by schools being closed for over two months.

It didn't happen at all in England and Wales - the government was insistent that there could be no part-time schooling because 'schools were safe' to return in September.

Is that it?

No, Ruby it isn't. There are anti lockdown campaigners (see: Us4Them, The Telegraph and other individuals) who are now campaigning vociferously against isolation of students.

Before Christmas, they were totally silent on the issue of isolation of students and instead were campaigning vociferously against any sort of mitigation measures in schools such as masks. These were studiously avoiding posting any stories about the number of students out of school, presumably because they didn't want people to go 'gosh we need to do something about the infection rates in schools, like introduce masks'.

In addition, there were many posters on MN, some from those campaign groups, doing everything they could to try to stop me posting the data on schools, including the number of kids isolating and suggesting that more mitigation measures were needed.

The same campaign groups and papers were shouting VERY LOUDLY during the school closures from Jan to March that we were creating a 'lost generation' who would never recover from the impact of covid and therefore it was imperative that schools re-opened immediately (No mention was made at all of the kids who missed school due to isolations before Christmas, btw, or the impact on their mental health or education, the focus was purely the closures)

Guess how much effort they have put into campaigning for more funding for CAMHS or for fighting the government's pathetic catch-up offering to rescue that 'lost generation'? Yeah, fuck all. Because once that came round they were onto their next job of ensuring that kids wouldn't be vaccinated.

Some have contacts in government, they have columns in newspapers, and they concentrate on using them to get MPs like Desmond Swayne (anti-lockdowner) to hold up signs saying 'don't muzzle kids' or 'stop isolating kids' or whatever.

If it's to do with kids but can't be used argue against covid measures e.g. masks/vaccines/isolation/school closures they aren't interested.

That's what I'm talking about.

@beyondstressedandmore

Another element in the mass transmission/bubbles bursting/isolation in schools in the autumn term, leading to schools remaining closed after xmas for several months was the govt refusal to permit schools, LAs or MATs design a ways to deliver the curriculum that would mitigate risks in schools considerably.

The govt would not permit any type of blended learning, even for secondary (primary is different as more childcare issues). Schools could have had from March - September to design blended learning/ part-time schooling or whatever you want to call it - from September, supported obviously by the tech that the government promise repeatedly (and never delivered).

Different approaches would have worked for different schools and communities. Different approaches would have worked for different children.

Oh, and masks. Unlike pretty much every other school in every other country.

And yes RubyFowler teachers, other school staff, parents and local communities certainly stepped up to fill the gaping caverns where governmental initiatives should have been.

One possible thing that would have been helpful in the autumn was not to hurl abuse at school staff describing the woeful situations in school and refuse to engage with the ONS data which showed that secondary school children were the most infected subset of the population. And consider that pushing on until Xmas was what was driving the transmission rate up, resulting in school closures in the New Year.

One possible thing that would have been helpful during school closures this year would have not been to weaponise 'vulnerable and SEN children' as the reason that schools shouldn't close/re-open immediately, then completely forget about them as soon as they weren't convenient to make an argument with.

Not directed at anyone on this thread btw, general points.

Yes to all this.

That's what I'm talking about

@noblegiraffe ok. I can see your frustration with the likes of us4them and their supporters.

Yes, like I said I’m fucking furious.

And as they are all over MN, I’m quite sure they’ll read this.

@noblegiraffe

Is that it?

No, Ruby it isn't. There are anti lockdown campaigners (see: Us4Them, The Telegraph and other individuals) who are now campaigning vociferously against isolation of students.

Before Christmas, they were totally silent on the issue of isolation of students and instead were campaigning vociferously against any sort of mitigation measures in schools such as masks. These were studiously avoiding posting any stories about the number of students out of school, presumably because they didn't want people to go 'gosh we need to do something about the infection rates in schools, like introduce masks'.

In addition, there were many posters on MN, some from those campaign groups, doing everything they could to try to stop me posting the data on schools, including the number of kids isolating and suggesting that more mitigation measures were needed.

The same campaign groups and papers were shouting VERY LOUDLY during the school closures from Jan to March that we were creating a 'lost generation' who would never recover from the impact of covid and therefore it was imperative that schools re-opened immediately (No mention was made at all of the kids who missed school due to isolations before Christmas, btw, or the impact on their mental health or education, the focus was purely the closures)

Guess how much effort they have put into campaigning for more funding for CAMHS or for fighting the government's pathetic catch-up offering to rescue that 'lost generation'? Yeah, fuck all. Because once that came round they were onto their next job of ensuring that kids wouldn't be vaccinated.

Some have contacts in government, they have columns in newspapers, and they concentrate on using them to get MPs like Desmond Swayne (anti-lockdowner) to hold up signs saying 'don't muzzle kids' or 'stop isolating kids' or whatever.

If it's to do with kids but can't be used argue against covid measures e.g. masks/vaccines/isolation/school closures they aren't interested.

That's what I'm talking about.

Well said 👏

Anyone who even as much as disagreed slightly was decreed as belonging to U4T, it got tiring. I am not the only poster who stopped engaging, so lots of us were concerned but avoided the posts after a while.

Anyway my ds has been at school for 3 days out of the last 15, school is school, home is home so he has done no work whatsoever for those 12 days. Most of that time has been spent peeling him off the ceiling, so right now my concern is only with my children.

Anyone who even as much as disagreed slightly was decreed as belonging to U4T, it got tiring

Yes it did.

No idea what the argument is in the OP? It’s possible to be against enforced isolation and all the ridiculous measures being imposed in schools due to concerns about children’s well-being!

@noblegiraffe

Is that it?

No, Ruby it isn't. There are anti lockdown campaigners (see: Us4Them, The Telegraph and other individuals) who are now campaigning vociferously against isolation of students.

Before Christmas, they were totally silent on the issue of isolation of students and instead were campaigning vociferously against any sort of mitigation measures in schools such as masks. These were studiously avoiding posting any stories about the number of students out of school, presumably because they didn't want people to go 'gosh we need to do something about the infection rates in schools, like introduce masks'.

In addition, there were many posters on MN, some from those campaign groups, doing everything they could to try to stop me posting the data on schools, including the number of kids isolating and suggesting that more mitigation measures were needed.

The same campaign groups and papers were shouting VERY LOUDLY during the school closures from Jan to March that we were creating a 'lost generation' who would never recover from the impact of covid and therefore it was imperative that schools re-opened immediately (No mention was made at all of the kids who missed school due to isolations before Christmas, btw, or the impact on their mental health or education, the focus was purely the closures)

Guess how much effort they have put into campaigning for more funding for CAMHS or for fighting the government's pathetic catch-up offering to rescue that 'lost generation'? Yeah, fuck all. Because once that came round they were onto their next job of ensuring that kids wouldn't be vaccinated.

Some have contacts in government, they have columns in newspapers, and they concentrate on using them to get MPs like Desmond Swayne (anti-lockdowner) to hold up signs saying 'don't muzzle kids' or 'stop isolating kids' or whatever.

If it's to do with kids but can't be used argue against covid measures e.g. masks/vaccines/isolation/school closures they aren't interested.

That's what I'm talking about.

This literally makes no sense to me. Being opposed to 1) enforced isolations , 2) closures of schools, and 3) mitigation measures such as masks are all entirely consistent positions to hold, and all entirely consistent with a desire to uphold and protect the well-being of children. There’s nothing contradictory here at all.

They're also entirely consistent with being an anti-lockdown campaign group, aren't they?

And given that the main group that's supposedly very concerned for children's interests only focus on ones that are also consistent with anti-lockdown campaigning while ignoring all other pressing issues involving children, that's a bit suspicious isn't it?

threads got to 1000
Clickbait does that.

By persistently calling the people who disagree with any of her points "anti lockdowners", the OP presumably is a pro lockdowner. Why on earth would someone be for lockdown, knowing full well the damage it causes? Very disturbing. And she also shows a total lack of nuance in her thinking and her arguments. "If you're not for me you're against me."

Not a great advert for her alleged profession.

@HesterShaw1 Not to mention that those that don’t agree with her are “mean girls”.