Schools not having to isolate when in contact of virus

[Baileysforchristmas]

There is hope this will stop after September.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/28/ministers-set-to-end-automatic-isolation-for-pupils-in-england

@yeahdarling

The dismissal of the health of school staff is actually horrific to read.

No one is dismissing the health of school staff. Stop with the drama.

(Sorry, that was the data issued for up to June 14th)

@Watapalava

Noone should be isolating now

100% of those in the top 99% ho needed hospital treatment and were at risk of death have had time for both vaccines

The other 1% have likely had one vaccine

Who are we protecting? The gov is right to follow its plans because if we cant loosen and open up fully now we never will.

One school in my town has 23/30 kids positive and not a single one was symptomatic. Letting it spread through the kids seems fine to me - cev kids should be offered vaccine or home schooling initially

Most adults who are double vaccinated will not be ill so staffing shouldn't be an issue

This.

Once all adults are double vaccinated + 2 weeks, and when all workplaces return to non social distanced, non mask wearing, 30+ people in a small room for hours per day and with no isolation, it is fine for school workplaces to be the same.

Hopefully, that will be for September - all workplaces and offices back in, full time, no distancing, no masks, no isolation, no ventilation, no perspex, and then it will be fine for schools to be the same.

It's clearly wrong to say that adults whose workplace happens to be in a school should not have the protection those in other workplaces do.

[Of course, that HAS been the case since September - those whose workplace is a school not having any of the protections that those in other workplaces have as a matter of course and as a matter of law. I don't think there's any good reason to make the inequality any bigger or last any longer?]

They need to come up with some plan - a realistic one! And maybe even some investment in schools.

It's not just the schools it's affecting.

So many children who do recreational or club level sport are having to miss training and competitions because of positive cases in their school and isolation.

The current set up is affecting kids in all aspects of their lives. We can no longer ignore the transmission risks in schools or that kids transmit it.

We need to decide what level of transmission is acceptable, how we can manage it and how we keep it under control.

I know kids due to race in their first big swimming comps for 18 months who are actually begging not to go to school the last 1.5 weeks of term so they don't miss it through isolation. It's too much fucking with their MH.

We need to decide what level of transmission is acceptable, how we can manage it and how we keep it under control

As far as I understand it, the current plan is to allow unlimited transmission in school age children, not manage it or control it at all and not measure it particularly well (daily tests for primary aged children?), and take any resultant illness in adults as acceptable collateral because it won't overwhelm the health service.

In some ways, this is what HAS to happen. The Government does not intend to vaccinate children, and does not have the vaccine supply to do so. Therefore, the only route to proper herd immunity is through mass infection, preferably as rapid as possible, and preferably outside winter respiratory illness season.

No country is vaccinating under 12 though? So maybe supply re older age children but is it the reason for under 12 or more in line with other countries

Sorry, should have been clearer. T

he Government does not currently intend to vaccinate any children, though when it has the supply it may change that decision for over 12s IF that can be managed at the same time as booster jabs for over 50s (which can presumably mainly be AZ if they produce a suitable jab).

For under 12s - including CEV under 12s, the only route forward is herd immunity through mass infection.

Cant I agree but isn’t that true for every country? I don’t think any are vaccinating under 12, I’d be interested re under 12 CEV though as I’m not sure

Even countries with closed borders currently will get herd immunity in that age group through infection (I assume, stand to be corrected)

Marsha,

If secondary school pupils could be vaccinated, that would mean the current plan to allow infection to spread out of control within schools from September would have less collateral damage in terms of wider infection AND in terms of illness in 12-18 year olds themselves.

That would still mean herd immunity through mass infection in primaries, yes, but
a) their parents are usually younger, so less vulnerable.
b) total numbers of infected individuals will be smaller
c) this would give a smaller probability of mutations

@cantkeepawayforever

Marsha,

If secondary school pupils could be vaccinated, that would mean the current plan to allow infection to spread out of control within schools from September would have less collateral damage in terms of wider infection AND in terms of illness in 12-18 year olds themselves.

That would still mean herd immunity through mass infection in primaries, yes, but
a) their parents are usually younger, so less vulnerable.
b) total numbers of infected individuals will be smaller
c) this would give a smaller probability of mutations

No issue with any of that, it was more the primary I wondered about. I’d be happy if JCVI decided on their expertise to do it but can’t say much more as I don’t have the info / expertise

I’m generally for vaccination and my yr11 has been invited already

@MarshaBradyo that's interesting, my ds is Y11 too and no sign of his age group getting called for vaccination yet. Are they routinely offering it to 16 & 17 year olds where you are?

Pink I think it’s related to asthma treatment he had when younger

Marsha,

I can't think of a good way of managing primaries that pleases everyone - or indeed one that pleases anyone!

Isolation is a particular difficulty because they cannot isolate alone, which has an impact on parents.

Testing is more difficult on younger children, and many parents are reluctant to force their younger children to be tested.

Distancing is impossible for staff in primary schools, which are by definition more hands-on.

While bubbles are much smaller - typically 30-32 - the group is together in such close quarters for so much time each day that reducing this number by defining 'close contacts' is not feasible.

Childcare and similar structured after-school activities inevitably mix bubbles, creating more contacts.

Unless the Government is prepared to fund true mitigation measures in primaries, particularly ventilation and smaller grouping, then I do think that the only way forward will be to let it run totally out of control and be ready to treat those (probably family members and staff) who become ill.

@MarshaBradyo

Pink I think it’s related to asthma treatment he had when younger

Ah ok, that makes sense. I'm hoping they decide to offer to all 16 & 17 year olds here over the summer, so at least one of my 4 dc have been vaccinated before going back to school.

@cantkeepawayforever

Marsha,

I can't think of a good way of managing primaries that pleases everyone - or indeed one that pleases anyone!

Isolation is a particular difficulty because they cannot isolate alone, which has an impact on parents.

Testing is more difficult on younger children, and many parents are reluctant to force their younger children to be tested.

Distancing is impossible for staff in primary schools, which are by definition more hands-on.

While bubbles are much smaller - typically 30-32 - the group is together in such close quarters for so much time each day that reducing this number by defining 'close contacts' is not feasible.

Childcare and similar structured after-school activities inevitably mix bubbles, creating more contacts.

Unless the Government is prepared to fund true mitigation measures in primaries, particularly ventilation and smaller grouping, then I do think that the only way forward will be to let it run totally out of control and be ready to treat those (probably family members and staff) who become ill.

Agree

Isolation also has huge mental and physical negative impact on children themselves.

Also I’m not convinced that with all the mixing in younger years in and out if school that mitigation would do much than delay - some like ventilation has no down side so also thought it could be one to focus on but smaller classes obviously is very costly.

Also we have smaller classes in private it won’t stop children same age getting it.

Without vaccination I can’t see that all you can do is slow it down slightly if prepared to spend a lot. And every country including Aus etc will be in same boat for under 12 when borders open.

@cantkeepawayforever

Marsha,

I can't think of a good way of managing primaries that pleases everyone - or indeed one that pleases anyone!

Isolation is a particular difficulty because they cannot isolate alone, which has an impact on parents.

Testing is more difficult on younger children, and many parents are reluctant to force their younger children to be tested.

Distancing is impossible for staff in primary schools, which are by definition more hands-on.

While bubbles are much smaller - typically 30-32 - the group is together in such close quarters for so much time each day that reducing this number by defining 'close contacts' is not feasible.

Childcare and similar structured after-school activities inevitably mix bubbles, creating more contacts.

Unless the Government is prepared to fund true mitigation measures in primaries, particularly ventilation and smaller grouping, then I do think that the only way forward will be to let it run totally out of control and be ready to treat those (probably family members and staff) who become ill.

This, absolutely.

Also note that even if the government do choose to fund measures, it will still spread because it’s so transmissible.