Vaccination alone is not the way out of this

[nonono1]

I’m watching a politician on Question Time tonight who has just said that vaccination is not the sole way out of this nightmare pandemic situation. I think she then went on to say something about the importance of the test and trace system being up to scratch in addition to the vaccines. But I wasn’t really listening at that point to be honest, as I was so surprised by what she’d said about the vaccines.

What I don’t understand is, how are vaccines not the sole way out of this? Surely when the vast majority of the population have been double jabbed, it will be over?!

Interesting data..

There will be people watching this and thinking the vaccines are pointless. They are skating on thin ice.

Vaccines are doing the heavy lifting to get us out of this, but we will have thousand & thousands of people coming into the U.K. daily, bringing various variants in. Not everyone can be vaccinated and not everyone will get good protection from the vaccines (people with cancer etc) and who knows if we'll vaccinate children/what the uptake will be.

So, yes, we need 'track & trace' to be working properly and good backward tracing.

Well it all depends on what you think the strategy should be.

Double jabs aren’t enough to achieve zero Covid and/or zero Covid deaths.

We probably knew that though.

Agree with AlmostSummer.

@nonono1

I’m watching a politician on Question Time tonight who has just said that vaccination is not the sole way out of this nightmare pandemic situation. I think she then went on to say something about the importance of the test and trace system being up to scratch in addition to the vaccines. But I wasn’t really listening at that point to be honest, as I was so surprised by what she’d said about the vaccines.

What I don’t understand is, how are vaccines not the sole way out of this? Surely when the vast majority of the population have been double jabbed, it will be over?!

yes so vaccination to get population level protection, and then an effective test and trace to mop up outbreaks which will be caused by vaccine failure (in certain populations and due to the import of new strains)

fingers cross BJ and co can manage it a functional T&T second time round...

Surely when the vast majority of the population have been double jabbed, it will be over?!

Yes, when we're at that stage. But it's a while off yet. Particularly for the rest of the world. (Things would be speeded up if Biden succeeds in his push for the drugs companies to temporarily waive vaccine patents).

Until the majority is vaccinated (80-90%), other precautions might be needed. Masks, good test and trace, border control.

@CindyRella18

You can theoretically kill all infections and COVID if there is a mass deployment of ivermectin. Its non patented for generic creation and costs pennys to produce.

For the cost of a single vaccine you could save hundreds if not thousands of lives.

except there is currently no good evidence that this is the case?

why do you think governments aren't routinely using ivermectin if you are so convinced it is both effective and safe?

ivmmeta.com/

More in depth data. It worked for Mexico and India. Spain deployed vitamin D to assist. We really need open and transparent discussions.

The way forward is for all to live in earthen burrows underground, like moles. As we will technically be inside, masks will be worn, but fear not, drinks will be served. 🥂

Vaccines work.

But we currently need 87% double vaccinated to keep R below 1.

We're only half way there.

And that's not taking into account potential new Variants (hello Delta+!) and the damage done by Long Covid.

We need to keep low-level restrictions in place while we keep vaccinating, or cases will go off a cliff. Unfortunately, Johnson's plan is to let it rip.

@CindyRella18

ivmmeta.com/

More in depth data. It worked for Mexico and India. Spain deployed vitamin D to assist. We really need open and transparent discussions.

As I said, there is no good quality evidence currently, that ivermectin is effective

you are linking an article that attempts to combine the existing studies in a meta-analysis, which are methodologically flawed, to get effect estimates

all this does is amplify the biased results of existing studies...

Until the majority is vaccinated (80-90%), other precautions might be needed. Masks, good test and trace, border control.

Well we’ve already vaccinated over 80% with a first dose, but obviously there’s a way to go with the second. But hopefully the end is in sight?

It would be great if the ivermectin trials were successful.

In the meantime, other drug trials are going on too, so who knows. Over the coming months we could have several options to add to the current treatments.

Unfortunately it's very expensive but I've heard good things about Regeneron (the treatment given to Trump). Perhaps an option for people who might for medical reasons have less protection from vaccines?

There are plenty of studies validating it. It really is criminal.

The American Journal of Therapeutics recently concluded that it does work, extensively. so much so that they recommend Ivermectin to be “globally and systematically deployed in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19“.

That is from one of the above links at
docilebritain.com/2021/06/24/the-science-of-ivermectin-and-its-fight-against-covid-19/

Thread has info on india involving who. Another snippet.

The U.S. National Library of Medicine also states “Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance.“. These are just three instances of validation, there are plenty more.

These are the most validating claims thus far. We SHOULD NOT IGNORE.

journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Oxford even have a risk calculator. Check yours, I am within the 99.9% bracket.

www.qcovid.org/

@nonono1

Until the majority is vaccinated (80-90%), other precautions might be needed. Masks, good test and trace, border control.

Well we’ve already vaccinated over 80% with a first dose, but obviously there’s a way to go with the second. But hopefully the end is in sight?

the end is in sight (ish)

I think the point they were probably trying to make is even with everyone who wants to be vaccinated, because of the lowered efficacy due to new variants (and the risk of new emerging variants) it will still be the case that new infections need to be tracked and people asked to isolate to prevent spread

but this should be a lot more manageable now!

I hope so @nonono1

Definitely we'll be in a much better place once we have majority double vaccinated.

[quote CindyRella18]There are plenty of studies validating it. It really is criminal.

The American Journal of Therapeutics recently concluded that it does work, extensively. so much so that they recommend Ivermectin to be “globally and systematically deployed in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19“.

That is from one of the above links at
docilebritain.com/2021/06/24/the-science-of-ivermectin-and-its-fight-against-covid-19/

Thread has info on india involving who. Another snippet.

The U.S. National Library of Medicine also states “Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance.“. These are just three instances of validation, there are plenty more.

These are the most validating claims thus far. We SHOULD NOT IGNORE.

journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Oxford even have a risk calculator. Check yours, I am within the 99.9% bracket.

www.qcovid.org/[/quote]
@CindyRella18

Gah. The existing studies are not robust, this has been discussed at length by academics & epidemiologists. It isn't "criminal" because there's no evidence it's actually effective.

You're linking more and more articles, but they all come back to same manuscripts that are methodologically flawed and there do not allow us to make causal inference. So many of the are various iterations of meta-analyses (so not new resesarch)

As I said, RCTs (which are the gold standard in terms of evidence based medicine) to see if it can be effective in treating mild cases

Well we’ve already vaccinated over 80% with a first dose, but obviously there’s a way to go with the second. But hopefully the end is in sight?

Over 80% or PEOPLE or over 80% of ADULTS?

To achieve herd immunity, you need 80-90% of every group within society, so the chances are that an infected individual will niot meet an unvaccinated one to pass the virus on 9or does so so rarely that pockets of infection don't spread).

Wuith vaccination only in adults, the nearly 100% of children who are unvaccinated (and are in non-Covid safe environments for many hours a day) can very cheerfully keep the pandemic going by continuing to pass the infection around amongst themselves....

@CindyRella18 why are you linking the COVID risk calculator and saying "Check yours, I am within the 99.9% bracket."

Surely that's irrelevant to your points about ivermectin?!

@Tealightsandd

I hope so *@nonono1*

Definitely we'll be in a much better place once we have majority double vaccinated.

Not necessarily. Big Care home outbreak in my area where all the residents and staff are double jabbed

Thanks g7 superspreading the delta variant

Here's an article about Regeneron.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/24/the-longest-of-covids-the-man-infected-for-10-months

It's not yet approved for use in the UK but it sounds promising. Particularly could be useful for people who might not get full protection from the vaccine.