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Vaccination alone is not the way out of this

112 replies

nonono1 · 24/06/2021 23:04

I’m watching a politician on Question Time tonight who has just said that vaccination is not the sole way out of this nightmare pandemic situation. I think she then went on to say something about the importance of the test and trace system being up to scratch in addition to the vaccines. But I wasn’t really listening at that point to be honest, as I was so surprised by what she’d said about the vaccines.

What I don’t understand is, how are vaccines not the sole way out of this? Surely when the vast majority of the population have been double jabbed, it will be over?!

OP posts:
CindyRella18 · 24/06/2021 23:43

This reply has been deleted

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cantkeepawayforever · 24/06/2021 23:46

Cindyrella, who is paying you? You seem oddly fixated on a single treatment?

PineappleMojito · 24/06/2021 23:46

Depends if the end game is zero Covid. Vaccines can’t achieve zero Covid. UK govt has it seems accepted this isn’t possible or practical, so we’ll have to accept vaccines and some level of Covid as a “good enough” way forward.

CindyRella18 · 24/06/2021 23:48

@cantkeepawayforever

Cindyrella, who is paying you? You seem oddly fixated on a single treatment?
That is what is so great, nobody is paying me. Ivermectin is generic so it can be made for pennies by anyone. A course costs a quid.

That is likely the issue, there is no money to be made.

ollyollyoxenfree · 24/06/2021 23:48

It is not as if ivermectin is some dangerous drug, its a WHO essential medication.

yes, it's a WHO essential medication for parasitic infections, not respiratory viruses. Just because it's safe and effective for treating some diseases, doesn't make it safe and effective in treating others

@CindyRella18 you're just repeating the same information - I've explained the evidence base is not robust, there are serious methodological issues with the manuscripts and inferences you're linking.

The figures and charts show direct correlation as its a controlled environment. -

I'm going to make the bold assumption you haven't read the original papers and assessed their methodology and risk of bias, so why are repeating claims they show efficacy, when countless epidemiologists have explained this isn't the case.

As I asked earlier - why would governments block the use of a drug you seem to think is safe, cheap and effective?

ollyollyoxenfree · 24/06/2021 23:50

@cantkeepawayforever

I'm actually quite convinced there's something off about @CindyRella18 's account. Made today, lots of copy and paste jobbies and then that random statement about the QCovid calculator "Check your risk! I'm 99.9%" which looked like it had been accidentally copied in

CindyRella18 · 24/06/2021 23:50

@ollyollyoxenfree

It is not as if ivermectin is some dangerous drug, its a WHO essential medication.

yes, it's a WHO essential medication for parasitic infections, not respiratory viruses. Just because it's safe and effective for treating some diseases, doesn't make it safe and effective in treating others

@CindyRella18 you're just repeating the same information - I've explained the evidence base is not robust, there are serious methodological issues with the manuscripts and inferences you're linking.

The figures and charts show direct correlation as its a controlled environment. -

I'm going to make the bold assumption you haven't read the original papers and assessed their methodology and risk of bias, so why are repeating claims they show efficacy, when countless epidemiologists have explained this isn't the case.

As I asked earlier - why would governments block the use of a drug you seem to think is safe, cheap and effective?

I cannot comment on government but Covid is a vascular not respitory.
CindyRella18 · 24/06/2021 23:51

Vascular disease*

ollyollyoxenfree · 24/06/2021 23:53

I cannot comment on government but Covid is a vascular not respitory.

@CindyRella18 nope, as I said it's a respiratory virus (that can cause vascular complications), not a parasitic infection

Tealightsandd · 24/06/2021 23:55

Sorry to hear that @endofether

Do you know if the vaccines have helped at all? Are the cases more mild?

From what I understand the vaccines might be less effective on some. Possibly the very elderly and also people who are immunocompromised. They'll gain protection through the herd immunity of the rest of the population being fully vaccinated (including, as cantkeepawayforever says, children).

PrincessNutNuts · 24/06/2021 23:57

@nonono1

Until the majority is vaccinated (80-90%), other precautions might be needed. Masks, good test and trace, border control.

Well we’ve already vaccinated over 80% with a first dose, but obviously there’s a way to go with the second. But hopefully the end is in sight?

No we haven't.

65.4% of the U.K. population has had a first dose.

47.8% has had a second dose.

CindyRella18 · 24/06/2021 23:58

@ollyollyoxenfree

I cannot comment on government but Covid is a vascular not respitory.

@CindyRella18 nope, as I said it's a respiratory virus (that can cause vascular complications), not a parasitic infection

It is vascular disease which offers secondary complications via the respitory system.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/05/06/covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-a-respiratory-one-says-study

Information moves fast.

ElizabethTudor · 24/06/2021 23:58

She was making the point that alongside the vaccine, you need a robust T&T system plus funding for people who test positive, so they can afford to isolate, which doesn’t happen at the moment.
Interestingly, another point raised was that 40 people have tested for a Delta + variant, which is a mutant version of the original Delta variant. Which is excellent.

Tealightsandd · 24/06/2021 23:59

I do think the UK should approve Regeneron. It would be great if a cheaper drug like Ivermectin is found to work but whilst we wait for trial results, we do know that Regeneron can help. At least with some patients.

ollyollyoxenfree · 24/06/2021 23:59

@Endofether

I'm so sorry to hear that, that's awful :(

As @Tealightsandd says, as we vaccinate more and more people hopefully we'll start to see the elderly and CEV (and anyone else who hasn't had good vaccine efficacy) benefit from herd immunity so they're protected that way

ElizabethTudor · 24/06/2021 23:59

^ obviously it’s not excellent - I’m being sarcastic. It’s clearly v shit. 😳

PrincessNutNuts · 25/06/2021 00:02

@CindyRella18

ivmmeta.com/

More in depth data. It worked for Mexico and India. Spain deployed vitamin D to assist. We really need open and transparent discussions.

It worked for India? ^ India? ^ How did it work for India?
ollyollyoxenfree · 25/06/2021 00:02

It is vascular disease which offers secondary complications via the respitory system.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/05/06/covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-a-respiratory-one-says-study

Information moves fast.

@CindyRella18

the term "respiratory virus" refers to the fact that SARS-COV-2 is transmitted to and from the respiratory system, it does not mean that it exclusively affects the respiratory system

but nice attempts to swerve from all the ivermectin misinformation and conspiracy theories

Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 00:05

I don't know about Ivermectin (except it would be great if it does turn out to work, but also I hope if that's the case there's still enough of it for the guinea pigs).

But yes Covid is a vascular disease.

www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2021/may/researchers-conclude-covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-respiratory.html

GoldenOmber · 25/06/2021 00:06

@MercyBooth

There will be people watching this and thinking the vaccines are pointless. They are skating on thin ice.
Yes, agreed. I wish people would think about the bigger picture before coming out with stuff like this.

My theory is that some people adjusted fairly early on to the idea that vaccines weren’t going to come in and save us, they haven’t been able to adapt their view once vaccines did. So any bit of vaccine good news gets acknowledged late and grudgingly and only with a load of “ah well yes but, sadly, I’m afraid, it’s not actually that good” waffle. It’s a weird kind of denial.

“There likely won’t ever be a vaccine. We’ve never made one against a coronavirus.”
“Okay so we have, but not a human coronavirus, so there still probably won’t be.”
“Okay there probably will but it’ll take four years, at MOST, and that’s if we’re LUCKY.”
“Okay fine fine it looks like it’ll be faster than that but you do realise first-generation vaccines won’t be that good? We’ll be lucky to get a 60% efficacy rate.”
“Okay, so it’s actually very high. But! That doesn’t matter because the government will absolutely cock up the rollout and we’ll be waiting for years.”
“Okay the government hasn’t cocked up the rollout, but never mind that, did you know vaccines don’t prevent transmission at all? So it doesn’t matter how many of us get vaccinated because we’ll all still spread it
“Okay fine, maybe they do reduce transmission, but that’s not important, what’s important is that the vaccines don’t work against some of the variants!”

And now we seem to be up to Vaccine Denial Step 23: “Okay so they work very well against all known variants but BUT, what if a variant emerges tomorrow that they don’t work against, then they’re pretty much useless, so we can’t rely on vaccines to get us out of this.”

The vaccines are here, they work, we’re incredibly lucky to be in a country that can offer so many of them to us so fast, they’re the way out of this.

Puppysharness · 25/06/2021 00:06

Does anyone know how we are supposed to have a ‘robust test and trace’ system when nobody wants to use the app?

ollyollyoxenfree · 25/06/2021 00:08

[quote Tealightsandd]I don't know about Ivermectin (except it would be great if it does turn out to work, but also I hope if that's the case there's still enough of it for the guinea pigs).

But yes Covid is a vascular disease.

www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2021/may/researchers-conclude-covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-respiratory.html[/quote]
as I said, the the term "respiratory virus" refers to the fact that SARS-COV-2 is transmitted to and from the respiratory system, it does not mean that it exclusively affects the respiratory system

I've never said it's not a vascular disease, it's referring to the method by which it's spread

this was in the context of a poster saying ivermectin is effective and safe according to WHO - this is in the case of parasitic disease, not respiratory viruses

PrincessNutNuts · 25/06/2021 00:08

@nonono1

I’m watching a politician on Question Time tonight who has just said that vaccination is not the sole way out of this nightmare pandemic situation. I think she then went on to say something about the importance of the test and trace system being up to scratch in addition to the vaccines. But I wasn’t really listening at that point to be honest, as I was so surprised by what she’d said about the vaccines.

What I don’t understand is, how are vaccines not the sole way out of this? Surely when the vast majority of the population have been double jabbed, it will be over?!

Maths can answer this question.

What percentage of the U.K. population would you consider to be "the vast majority"?

What percentage is left?

How many million people is that?

That's where covid will spread.

(Plus, variants with even more vaccine escape than Delta may emerge, immunity wanes, and the level of immunity people get from the vaccines varies anyway. We're not all equally protected. And the vaccines don't give 100% protection to anyone.)

ollyollyoxenfree · 25/06/2021 00:09

@Puppysharness

Does anyone know how we are supposed to have a ‘robust test and trace’ system when nobody wants to use the app?
i think there's going to have to be a whole rejigging of the system

not exactly holding my breath though!

PrincessNutNuts · 25/06/2021 00:09

@Puppysharness

Does anyone know how we are supposed to have a ‘robust test and trace’ system when nobody wants to use the app?
Senegal was doing really well on the TTI front last time I looked. They don't have an app.
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