Who are these people?

[Kindnessdoesnthurt]

BBC reports:
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.

Of the 73 deaths:

34 (47%) were unvaccinated
10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.

I understand no vaccine is 100%, however these people still dieing dispite having the vaccines. Are these people very unwell that isn't related to covid? Are they young people with no health concerns as the varient is spreading in the young?

It worries me a lot. Who are these people?

This was predicted in the modelling. The higher % of the population that gets vaccinated, the fewer infections and deaths there will be. But a higher % of those deaths will be in vaccinated people. Many of those will be older or unwell people - a high % of those are vaccinated but they are still more vulnerable than the healthy population.

Also these are deaths “with Covid” and it isn’t clear whether Covid was cause of death or not.

In what circumstances can an 80-year old man with dementia have another 20 years in him?
Surely this could only happen if you can afford the best 24/7 medical care for the person?
You say he's only got dementia, in other words the most important organ in his body is failing

Op yes fundamentally they caught Covid before the vaccines kicked in. Covid seldom kills immediately.

@OliveTree75

however a Covid death I can’t see being their preferred choice.

Why is a covid death worse than any other death?

Right now? I would say because you’ll be cared for people PPE’d up to the eyeballs with restricted access to families. It’s not a ‘good’ death in the way we’d hope to facilitate someone usually. Like it’s been pointed out, there are very few truly good ways to die but there is always the aim to make it as smooth as possible that just aren’t possible if you’re admitted with any highly infectious disease that’s subject to strict protocols.

At the peak of an outbreak it was more unpleasant purely down to the numbers of patients around you. Covid wards were not pleasant places to be and I know a couple of people utterly traumatised by their time on one.

In and of itself, covid isn’t particularly special as far as dying from it goes. It doesn’t kill people in a particularly unusual way (bearing in mind most terminal illness is painful and uncomfortable).

@Oldpeoplesprinting

Yes *@HesterShaw1*!

Not every death is tragic. I hate this mentality- when my grandparents died, they were all in their 90s/100s. That’s not tragic at all, it’s just LIFE. It’s what happens. I’m so sick of the ‘every death is tragic & leaves a devastated family behind’.

WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE ONE DAY.

Yes we are, it doesn’t have to make us callous though does it?

No one has said anything callous.

Regarding covid deaths. My great uncle was only in his 80s. (One jab, AZ.) He had another 20 years in him. He was in a home for his dementia, but he had no other conditions. He still walked miles every day and had a lot of joy and love in his life

No one in their 80s in a home because they have dementia has 20 years left in him. Sorry. And you can't describe someone in their 80s as "only" in their 80s. That's a decent innings by any standards.

No one is saying that old people don't matter. No one. The care homes situation in spring 2020 and the way that residents have been treated since is in my opinion the biggest scandal of this whole sorry debacle.

@Dustyboots

The silence is there for a reason.

They don't want us to know ...

Why would that be?

They will be people with existing health conditions.

You don't know that. Where's the proof? @ilovesooty

Is there any?

Slightly disturb by some of the reasoning and skewed logic on here.

@trappedsincesundaymorn I meant no offence by simply assuming people would be devastated after a loved ones death, it would appear to not be the case for everyone. My condolences all the same.

Slightly disturb by some of the reasoning and skewed logic on here.

There's no need to be disturbed @Thewiseoneincognito

It's good that people think round things and shine a light on different ways of looking at things. There's nothing skewed about that. Not in a bad way anyway.

within 28 days of a positive test
Is the magical line. They could all have been in hospital for something else and have tested positive incidentally. This is why much of the past 15 months has been absolute bollocks.

@HesterShaw1

No one has said anything callous.

I think it’s quite callous to all caps type shout‘WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE’ 🤷‍♀️

I like to think I’m pretty reconciled with the idea of my own mortality and that of my loved ones, that doesn’t mean I don’t find the thought sad and dread it. Even then it’s been a weird time and lots of people are just having to contemplate this stuff for the first time. I think it’s callous to have no awareness of that and treat people like they’re ridiculous for struggling with those feelings.

It’s an unarguable fact that death comes to us all, it doesn’t make the realisation of the implication of that any easier.

Having seen my much loved grandmother slowly decline with dementia, living like that for 20 years would be my worst nightmare. Not every day lived is a blessing. Quantity is much less important than quality for me.

I potentially know one of these people, though I'm not quite sure about the timescale for reporting so it might not have been included in the figures.

My friend's sister. Died nearly a fortnight ago. 41 years old, she'd had her first vaccine. Died OF covid, not WITH covid - there was nothing else going on. Leaves behind a devastated family and group of friends.

So, there you go. That's one.

oh I should have said, she was more than 21 days after her first vaccine.

@someusernameorother

within 28 days of a positive test Is the magical line. They could all have been in hospital for something else and have tested positive incidentally. This is why much of the past 15 months has been absolute bollocks.

… and conversely there are people who have certainly died directly as a consequence of covid after the 28 day cut off.

I don’t have the figures to hand but there is a high readmittance and mortality rate post discharge for covid for certain groups.

I've just assumed it's the very elderly or very unwell (and a tiny, >1 % of people for whom the vaccine didn't work)

If it was anyone younger, fit and healthy we would have heard

The BBC has also reported today that if you are fully vaccinated, you are pretty much 'guaranteed' not to end up in hospital with covid. This is in addition to reports earlier in the week that even a single dose of AZ gives up to 74% protection against hospitalisation and Pfizer up to 94%.

When you consider the sheer number of active Covid cases currently the number of deaths of fully vaccinated people is really very, very tiny.

@TheVampiresWife

The BBC has also reported today that if you are fully vaccinated, you are pretty much 'guaranteed' not to end up in hospital with covid. This is in addition to reports earlier in the week that even a single dose of AZ gives up to 74% protection against hospitalisation and Pfizer up to 94%.

When you consider the sheer number of active Covid cases currently the number of deaths of fully vaccinated people is really very, very tiny.

Isn’t that simply because the deaths lag the cases and hospitalisations? From the OPs figures 53% of the deaths had one or both vaccines so I think we still need a few more weeks of data to see the true picture.

@Kindnessdoesnthurt

BBC reports: As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.

Of the 73 deaths:

34 (47%) were unvaccinated
10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.

I understand no vaccine is 100%, however these people still dieing dispite having the vaccines. Are these people very unwell that isn't related to covid? Are they young people with no health concerns as the varient is spreading in the young?

It worries me a lot. Who are these people?

Some will have died of other things but tested positive for Covid so their vaccination status is irrelevant. It doesn't mean Covid killed them.

And this is the problem with the stats. Always has been. People seem to take offence when we talk WITH Covid or FROM Covid. But fact is these stats are WITH Covid. Covid may not have played any part at all in their death.

Remember at the moment those with 2vax are much more likely to be the very elderly / vulnerable from the first couple of cohorts - who were done jan and March.

I keep wondering about these figures as it seems high for double vaccinated people but nothing is explained so we can't really work it out.

Thewiseoneincognito

Thankyou.