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Another Christmas lockdown?

105 replies

MercyBooth · 16/06/2021 23:42

Details in link to tweet. (i cant do screenshots) They can sit and swivel on a rusty spike if they think im doing another Christmas lockdown. Are they trying to sabotage the autumn booster uptake? Because i can see some not bothering if they go ahead with this.

Welcome to Narnia. Where we get winter but no Christmas!!!

twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1405056295766528001?s=20

OP posts:
Honey12346 · 17/06/2021 16:56

I don't even know anyone who followed the last Christmas lockdown...

TheDogsMother · 17/06/2021 17:00

So what would be the point of all this vaccination then ?

speckledostrichegg · 17/06/2021 17:08

SonnetForSpring

Bit melodramatic assuming there will be a lockdown over Christmas.

I'd call it evidence based analysis.

You don't see much of that these days.

What do you mean @Ostara212? A quote from an unnamed source about a policy that would be applied in 6 months isn't "evidence based analysis"

Backofbeyond50 · 17/06/2021 18:24

Yep Twitter really is the home of evidence bases analysis!

winched · 17/06/2021 19:53

You are most likely (by far) to catch Covid from a house hold contact. Shop workers, police etc generally have much shorter contacts, also they wear masks.

😂😂 sorry but... what? I'm sure you are most likely to catch Covid from the household but short of filling the pavements and roads with sheds (some people don't have gardens, shocking right) there is kinda fuck all anyone can do about that.

Do the magic fairies bring it into the household when they sprinkle magic money? Everyone I know had it come into the household through work. You know the police officers "with much shorter contacts" who work alongside different people every shift pattern, who spend 12 hours in a room with a suicidal person, who are constantly spat on and restraining people gasping all over them, who didn't have masks for months due to shortages? The childcare worker who has worked throughout for vulnerable and keyworker children (with their own children in hubs), being sneezed and coughed on and not allowed to wear a mask and exposed to different bubbles in the same day because bubbles are for children?

Do you live in a bubble Confused

But similar rules as covid for flu - have symptoms stay at home.

I'm not opposed to this if people are paid to stay at home and there is a large scale culture shift in workplaces that makes it acceptable. But are you sure you're not talking about a cold here? Loads of people struggle into the workplace with a cold when they'd much rather be in bed. The average person catches influenza once a decade. If you've ever had actual influenza (and not a really bad cold that totally floored you for a week) how likely would you be to not stay at home anyway? I had it once, shook from chills in a dark room, couldn't get to the bathroom myself and prayed death would be swift. The symptoms are very similar (though flu much more severe) so you can't really know unless you have been tested but one of the surest ways to know you've had flu is 'did you think you were gonna die?'. It's rarely something for which you can pop a paracetamol and get on with it.

traumatisednoodle · 17/06/2021 20:18

Do you live in a bubble ?

No I am a hospital doctor in Kent.
Prolonged close contact is the commonest route of transmission. So Christmas lunch = higher risk than Christmas shopping. I don't know many 70yo police officers, of course criminals could be any age.

BTW I think it's shocking the police weren't in group 2 for vaccination.

Flaxmeadow · 17/06/2021 20:22

This is another big favourite of mine. The tweaking of the incubation period. 3rd Jan when Boris announced the winter lockdown (though tier 4 was lockdown in all but name) is NINE days after Christmas Day. So its nine days from the infection to hospitialisaton to showing up on the figures. I thought it was longer than that. Or is the incubation period to cases showing up only count when ppl commit the cardinal sin of wanting to see their families...............oh but wait WAIT i thought there was always a LAG in the figures when there are bank holidays. So Christmas Day was a Friday Boxing Day was a Saturday and because BD fell on a weekend 28 Dec was a BH Monday. So how come it was NINE days from infection to hospitilisation and figures were available on 3rd Jan yet when its any other BH throught the year and the figures are low on a BH Monday its because of the BH and there is a lag

Thanks for your reply about last Xmas.

Sorry OP, but I've read it 5 or 6 times now and I still don't understand it.

traumatisednoodle · 17/06/2021 20:26

Nine days is about right for a positive PCR result (exposed on 24th/25th, symptoms 28th/29th, test on 30th/31st seems about right to me.

Flaxmeadow · 17/06/2021 20:30

It was a reply to this post by me.

Exactly, on the 6th of January the daily infection number was over 62,000
On the 20th of January the daily death number was over 1,800

I do wonder how many in the terrible January numbers had been pressured into Xmas dinner etc by others

Flaxmeadow · 17/06/2021 20:40

I believe those were the highest daily numbers so far
So an incubation period of approx 5 to 7 days (somewhere within 2 to 15 days)
If someone caught it around Xmas day. They would start to feel poorly around New Years Eve/Day and get tested
The highest infection day was around the 6th Jan
The highest daily deaths were around the 20th Jan

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2021 11:15

@Backofbeyond50

So who are these experts and fo they have a say? Hardly worth worrying about right now.
Chris Whitty is on record as saying we will have another difficult winter.

England’s chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty has said Covid-19 “has not thrown its last surprise at us and there will be several more over the next period”.

Speaking at the NHS Confed Conference, he said he is anticipating that case rates will continue to go up in the next few weeks due to the Delta variant being “significantly more transmissible” than the Alpha variant.

“In terms of the medium term, my expectation is that we will get a further winter surge, late autumn/winter surge, and that is because we know that winter and autumn favour respiratory viruses, and therefore it’d be very surprising if this particular highly transmissible respiratory virus was not also favoured,” he said.

Prof Whitty said most people think there will be “further problems over the winter”, adding:

“How big they’ll be I think is uncertain, and that partly depends on do we get new variants which can evade vaccines better, and partly depends on how the current wave passes through the UK.

“Then in terms of the medium to longer term, if I look five years out, I would expect us to have polyvalent vaccines which will hold the line to a very large degree against even new variants as they come in and an ability to respond with vaccination to new variants.

“But the period over the next two or three years, I think, new variants may well lead to us having to revaccinate or consider boosting vaccination as they come through.

“So, I think we have to just be aware that Covid has not thrown its last surprise at us and there will be several more over the next period.”

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-live-updates-officials-consider-20836317 Post at 15:15

This is pretty much the impression I was under any way. I don't think this is a major revelation.

It would be more of a surprise if next winter wasn't problematic

However for political and economic reasons the government will want to keep things open during December at the very least.

So either we will get a tightening of restrictions again in early / mid October if things are looking dicey (like we should have had at the end of last year) - not necessarily a lock down in my opinion. Or they will hold off completely until the New Year - at which point we could have a pretty miserable January / Feburary again.

Tbh, given that I'm expecting this, I think it will be relatively easy to deal with emotionally for me. Where the problem lies is with people who think that, thats it all done. The reality is the NHS has a fair chance of running into bed shortages again of a scale higher than pre-covid which is problematic. In other words there should be some government expectation management going on now, because this is coming from such a significant source.

What it means is that I'm going to enjoy the summer (and tbf this may be why the government aren't doing the expectation management just yet because the prospect of another difficult winter may alter behaviour and lead to people going nuts over the next few weeks before they get their vaccinations in. My guess is that the expectation management may kick in late August/early September).

But yeah, enjoy things now as best you can within reason. Don't go nuts and prepare yourself for the possibility that things may not be all rainbows and flowers going into the winter. If this proves not to be the case, great; we all get to go completely nuts this Christmas and New Year. I personally wouldn't be booking this into my diary as yet - thats one for planning mid Autumn I think when we have a better view of where we are actually at.

This might sound pessimistic but I'm actually pretty upbeat about it, because the pandemic is progressing as expected and the data is about where we realistically should be and does look encouraging. The real issue here is that from the off there were far to many people who believed and wanted to believe this was going to be a quick thing whereas 12 - 18 months for starting to get back to normal was ALWAYS the time frame mentioned. And that things wouldn't be the same after this either.

Honestly I am expecting some levels of covid regulation / restriction / protection / detection for some years yet and thinking this won't be the case is extremely naive wishful thinking.

Make the best of things and appreciate what you have and what you can do, not laminate it not being pre-covid at this stage.

Backofbeyond50 · 18/06/2021 12:25

Thank you @RedToothBrush. That does make sense. Not sure you extrapolate a definite Christmas Lockdown though.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2021 12:32

I don't think there will be a christmas lockdown. Either side of it much more possible - but christmas will be a desparation measure and a sign the government have fucked it.

I don't think the public will tolerate that - and I think if there is a hint of it being likely the government will learn the lesson of last year and step in earlier.

Thats falls around mid October. So if we are looking ok around mid October we are probably good until January 2nd.

Hence me not planning something big until we have got past that point and have a good idea of how things are going to pan out.

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2021 12:37

I’m in ROI and we tried the ‘lockdown in October to prepare for Christmas’ thing last year.

It was a total disaster. After being locked down for weeks, people went to town socialising, mostly in private homes, and the numbers skyrocketed.

I honestly think we need much cleverer use of lower impact measures to manage any surges next winter. I don’t know anyone who’d comply with another lockdown. That card has been maxed out.

NannyAndJohn · 18/06/2021 12:46

@TheKeatingFive

I’m in ROI and we tried the ‘lockdown in October to prepare for Christmas’ thing last year.

It was a total disaster. After being locked down for weeks, people went to town socialising, mostly in private homes, and the numbers skyrocketed.

I honestly think we need much cleverer use of lower impact measures to manage any surges next winter. I don’t know anyone who’d comply with another lockdown. That card has been maxed out.

So you do agree with me that we need to reintroduce some restrictions.

Great.

strangeshapedpotato · 18/06/2021 12:54

@winched

The average person catches influenza once a decade.

This is an urban myth.

Because flu can result in quite bad "mild" symptoms, people assume that if someone isn't this sick, it cannot be flu.

If it was true that the average person only caught it once per decade, then that would be 90%+ immunity to whatever wave comes in a given year - FAR beyond the level required for herd-immunity with flu which would effectively mean that NOBODY could catch it. And yet they do...

The fact is that many of us probably catch flu every year, but are never aware of it, either having no symptoms at all, or passing it off as a cold.

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2021 14:05

So you do agree with me that we need to reintroduce some restrictions.

That’s not what I said.

Looks like your reading isn’t any stronger than your maths Wink

MarshaBradyo · 18/06/2021 14:06

@Jennyfromtheculdesac

Jesus. It’s like half the people on this thread haven’t even heard of the vaccine programme.

Rates are mainly rising in the unvaccinated population.

Agree
MercyBooth · 18/06/2021 15:05

@RedToothBrush Thats great for those who actually like the summer but there are a substantial number who cant stand it (i hate the heat and humidity we get in the UK not helped by living in a sauna that passes for a flat. I prefer Christmas. And having seen the UEFA bigwigs getting their own way the Government can get fucked.

OP posts:
MercyBooth · 18/06/2021 15:07

And just seen that Notting Hill carnival will be cancelled.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/06/2021 16:10

[quote MercyBooth]@RedToothBrush Thats great for those who actually like the summer but there are a substantial number who cant stand it (i hate the heat and humidity we get in the UK not helped by living in a sauna that passes for a flat. I prefer Christmas. And having seen the UEFA bigwigs getting their own way the Government can get fucked.[/quote]
I am a Christmas Person not a Summer Person. I also melt in the summer. And my house looks like a Grotto in December.

As I've said previously which does not seem to have registered I do not think Christmas will be cancelled. At most there will be an 'on your head be it' message and it won't be until AFTER New Year that we are most likely to face a crisis. The ability to read what I have said about Christmas seems to be escaping a few people.

winched · 19/06/2021 04:11

@strangeshapedpotato The fact is that many of us probably catch flu every year, but are never aware of it, either having no symptoms at all, or passing it off as a cold.

Can you back up this fact?

Because every single result on google for 'how often do you catch flu' says once or twice per decade.

If it's an urban myth, as you claim, you might want to inform the Imperial College London that their study was wrong.

HarebrightCedarmoon · 19/06/2021 04:31

We're all vaccinated, perhaps even the teenage DCs will be by the end of the year. There is no way we will be having Christmas dinner in separate households again this year, opening presents over Zoom, whatever the rules are, and I'd assume most people feel the same.

Oh and mild flu, or having flu and not knowing you've had it (or passed it on) is definitely a thing. I said to my GP once "I don't think I've ever had 'flu," and she replied that I've almost certainly had it several times without realising.

strangeshapedpotato · 19/06/2021 11:50

[quote winched]**@strangeshapedpotato* The fact is that many of us probably catch flu every year, but are never aware of it, either having no symptoms at all, or passing it off as a cold.*

Can you back up this fact?

Because every single result on google for 'how often do you catch flu' says once or twice per decade.

If it's an urban myth, as you claim, you might want to inform the Imperial College London that their study was wrong. [/quote]
academic.oup.com/cid/article/64/6/736/2733100

MercyBooth · 20/06/2021 18:07

twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1406528572328665089?s=20

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
PHE's Susan Hopkins: "We may need to do further lockdowns this winter, I can't predict the future, it really depends on whether hospitals get overwhelmed at some point." Suggests that moving freedom day to 5th July rather than 19th would increase risk of going backwards again

OP posts: