Rates rising > Kids off school > WTF is the plan??

[HoppingHamster]

I want things to open up. I want vaccines to work. I’ve had my vaccines.

But.

There will soon be thousands of kids off school isolating because they’ve come into contact with someone who tested positive. 10 days off school. I already know of about 50 in our local area through various schools.

If June 21 goes ahead. And we can’t slow the spread among unvaccinated people. And the spread is already increasing statistically among children and younger ages (which it is), where is the plan for keeping kids in school?? For preventing more disruption to their education.

How is it possible to let things open up (and let numbers fly over next few months before more people vaccinated) AND keep kids equally in school? Either you open up and lift all quarantine restrictions. Or you have to do something to plot the spread amongst youngsters.

I’m worried this has been forgotten and it’s going to go wrong again.

@mondaywine

We had no COVID in our school until suddenly we did. When suddenly we did it hit us hard and after 3 weeks of cases ramping up we finally had to shut as there no longer enough staff to open safely and also to break the chain of infection. I work in an area which until this point had very low case numbers. Just because your area has low numbers just now does not mean it won’t have a case. I’m seeing so many schools having the exact same experience that we did- low cases in community, one positive case, suddenly a few cases in one class, class shut, isolated siblings positive in other classes, transmission out of control. Staff continue to catch COVID in schools. We are not all double vaccinated and many are yet to have their first dose.

That sounds similar to a school local to me, so unless it's your school the situation sadly isn't unsual. Our school has only had one confirmed case so far, but staff are all saying it's only a matter of time before we're faced with the same rise in cases and potential closures.

We had no COVID in our school until suddenly we did

Sums things up perfectly.

@dementedpixie I think that was because the minister who made the apology (Humza Yousaf ) basically implied that soft play areas weren't safe and everyone got on his case.

Different minister (John Swinney) said:

" Asked whether more children are being admitted to hospital, he said: ‘The current numbers are on the high side, certainly over the period of Covid we’ve not seen very many children hospitalised but we’re seeing a number just now, so we have to look at all of these factors to determine is there something in the new variants that are emerging that is making it more acutely challenging for children with a greater health impact, and these are the issues that we keep under constant review and upon which we take clinical advice.’ "

Can't see any apology issued for that so far? To be fair I haven't looked very hard but there's nothing I've spotted. I think they're feeling a bit concerned right now as there appears to be a change - but it's early days.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/health/covid-in-children-no-evidence-of-increase-in-hospital-numbers-say-paediatricians-3259535%3famp

This says no evidence of increase in hospital admissions

I think you are being insulting to other posters, by saying no ones talking about it, or that we out pouring fuel in fire by suggesting June 21st remains.

People are talking about it. The answer obviously isn't simple of clear, or else the decision would have already been taken. I actually am not sure what is best.

@Oblomov21 I’m not here to insult anyone, my concern is that no one in government, policy or the media is acknowledging the potential scale and impact of the problem. Not that it’s not being discussed on MN!

A few isolated cases along school closures etc are now rapidly snowballing into thousands of children being kept out of school, and will continue to do so unless we address it.

@Oblomov21

I think you are being insulting to other posters, by saying no ones talking about it, or that we out pouring fuel in fire by suggesting June 21st remains.

People are talking about it. The answer obviously isn't simple of clear, or else the decision would have already been taken. I actually am not sure what is best.

The poster I responded to about pouring fuel on the fire were certain. 'just get on with it' is hardly a nuanced position.

Johnson knows what is best in terms of health and financial costs. What he is weighing up is political risk.

I don't give a shit about political risk, I care about the country, so to me it is simple. A delay is needed.

My god, the ignorance of some people!

The government treats you like idiots (don't frighten the horses!) and you let them!

There is a credible risk, covid numbers are rising, if we don't act soon, then we're creating a bigger problem down the line.

Have you learnt nothing from the last year or so?

Have you learnt nothing from the last year or so? This. The fact people are saying the exact same stuff is

@dementedpixie - I honestly don't know what the truth is. I'd be delighted if the story about kids in hospital was inflated as that thought is terrifying.

They're contradicting each other. One source says kids in hospital with COVID is on the high side, the other side says it's not but there's no details. I'd love to believe that's true but I think I'll need a bit more than "they said it's not".

I've not seen any hospital admission figures for ages but I did see that earlier today, in the number of new cases around 21% (I think) was 0-18yr olds. The % of new cases seems to tally with the vaccines. I'm hoping that's the only reason for this and it's not because this new strain is especially virulent in youngsters. My concern is that I thought virtually no kids went to hospital with COVID so even if there's a few now, that's still a worry, no? Considering before they were supposed to be more or less asymptomatic?

We're kind of shielding still (vulnerable kids) so we're not really mixing anywhere yet. Just be useful to have an honest assessment of how concerned we should be.

Delay further unlocking until schools close and then try to surge-vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?

Not my town, but local enough, there is an outbreak of Delta variant which has been directly fed by spread in children in schools. And not just older children - it includes multiples cases up year 4.

There is now surge testing and mass vaccination aimed at anyone over 18.

But nothing different or extra being done in schools where the spread is being driven. Just the standard test and isolate.

This will be absolutely unworkable if 21st June carries on as planned. It’s sheer idiocy.

Barely anyone is dying with Covid now. The vulnerable have been vaccinated. We need to go back to our normal way of living now, no restrictions, no surveillance. People die from viruses every year and whilst it’s sad, this has happened for millennia. If you have health anxiety, then feel free to lock yourself up in your home. Don’t force this on everyone else.

We need to focus on the mental health pandemic that has worsened by a dramatic rate since the lockdowns. Lonely people unable to socialise. People losing jobs. Kids missing school. People trapped in abusive households unable to escape. People unable to see a therapist/psychiatrist in person.

@severalsnapes I tend to agree with you about delaying further unlocking until schools are closed. I also think this would give them a politically acceptable excuse for doing so.

I don’t think that mass vaccination of kids over summer will fly though, it’s not been approved in young children anywhere yet and I’d feel worried about being pushed into that because the govt didn’t close it’s borders to India soon enough.

@severalsnapes

Delay further unlocking until schools close and then try to surge-vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?

Think this is what Matt Hancock hinted to Andrew Marr on Sunday.

where are all these schools that are closing? i'm in lancs in current variant of concern area and our cases have "tripled" - well yes but from 1 to 3 cases in the last 7 days!!!

I haven't heard of a single case in months with no classes - never mind whole schools affected in area at all, yet door to door testing is going on?

@Watapalava

where are all these schools that are closing? i'm in lancs in current variant of concern area and our cases have "tripled" - well yes but from 1 to 3 cases in the last 7 days!!!

I haven't heard of a single case in months with no classes - never mind whole schools affected in area at all, yet door to door testing is going on?

Just a thought but it is possible you don't have personal contact with every school in the country. Clearly some schools are sending pupils home. A third of secondary pupils were isolating in Bolton schools.

Well obviously just seems odd that i'm in same zone as Bolton and not a single school is affected. Given im in a priority vaccine area where anyone over 18 is being offered i'd have throught more cases

Numbers are very low and boltons cases have reduced massively so it can be controlled

@CutieBear I think you’re conflating a few issues to suit an ideology. What we’ve seen this year is that no one ideology trumps another, it’s a battle no one is going to win. Getting through this is about the art of compromise, not about belligerently insisting on complete ideological submission from one side or the other.

Lonely people unable to socialise Why can’t lonely people socialise the way things are now, why are they dependent on June 21?

People losing jobs.

Kids missing school. The point of the thread is the effect of quarantine, do you suggest that we just allow people to circulate Covid if they have it, no isolation at all?

People trapped in abusive households unable to escape. What needs to happen for this to change that we don’t have at the moment?

People unable to see a therapist/psychiatrist in person I am seeing a therapist and I find the online sessions excellent, I was also offered face to face but declined.

Another question - how many adults and children who are forced to isolate actually end up testing positive?

Everyone I know who has isolated due TP potential contacts has never had a positive test.

[quote ExhaustedFlamingo]@dementedpixie - I honestly don't know what the truth is. I'd be delighted if the story about kids in hospital was inflated as that thought is terrifying.

They're contradicting each other. One source says kids in hospital with COVID is on the high side, the other side says it's not but there's no details. I'd love to believe that's true but I think I'll need a bit more than "they said it's not".

I've not seen any hospital admission figures for ages but I did see that earlier today, in the number of new cases around 21% (I think) was 0-18yr olds. The % of new cases seems to tally with the vaccines. I'm hoping that's the only reason for this and it's not because this new strain is especially virulent in youngsters. My concern is that I thought virtually no kids went to hospital with COVID so even if there's a few now, that's still a worry, no? Considering before they were supposed to be more or less asymptomatic?

We're kind of shielding still (vulnerable kids) so we're not really mixing anywhere yet. Just be useful to have an honest assessment of how concerned we should be.[/quote]
The article I quoted seems to say kids were going to hospital for other reasons and on being tested were found to have covid so they aren't being hospitalised because of covid.

Kids are affected by it. Both my children have it and they are poorly, not on ventilators, but they are still unwell.

@HoppingHamster

I’m totally torn. It seems to be:

Stop isolation entirely (let it rip)

Or

Keep isolation until adults vaccinated (kids lose out unequally AGAIN)

There isn’t a middle ground. But more importantly…. Has this even been talked about?

If it hasn’t now, in two weeks it will be.

How will kids lose out if most adults are vaccinated? Israel found that vaccinating such a large percentage of adults actually stopped the spread amongst children.

Another question - how many adults and children who are forced to isolate actually end up testing positive?

This is a fair question. R tells us that people are passing it to approximately 1.2 people, the problem is we don’t know which 1.2 they’ll be (households most likely). Bearing in mind it’s an average and many people won’t infect anyone, some will infect 5 or 10. It’s those cases we need to be vigilant of.

watapalava I’m no mathematician but you do understand how this works, don’t you? Those ‘only three cases’ will infect many, many more people and so on and so on.

The government can’t admit there is a problem as their narrative that SCHOOLS ARE SAFE would be broken. I work in a school and they are not and never have been ‘Covid safe’. I can stand the stress right now as I’m lucky enough to have had two vaccines (still not 100% risk free) but I am incredibly sorry for parents, teachers and, yes, children, who aren’t vaccinated as this variant is even nastier than the Kent variant. I can’t wait to get rid of my mask, but I still wear it in school (to teach in too!) and will do until this variant is no longer a concern.