Can we stop the "hygiene theatre"?

[Hamilbamil]

It's been said for a long time that the chances of transmission from surface contact and extremely small. I've copied an extract from a BBC article today below providing further details.

With this in mind, shouldn't we rein back on the "hygiene theatre" that has become part of daily life in so many places. In particular schools where, despite being in close proximity and massless all day, pupils and teachers spend an entirely disproportionate amount of time washing and sanitising. This isn't merely harmless activity, but actively reduces the amount of education our children are receiving as significant time is wasted carrying out these elaborate rituals.... all to give the false impression of being "Covid-safe".

Enough... Of course hygiene is good, but there's no excuse now to get back to normality in this area.

"At the start of the pandemic, a lot of focus was on surfaces. People washed groceries and avoided touching buttons at pedestrian crossings. Councils shut playgrounds and cordoned off park benches.Yet it's been all but impossible to find an outbreak linked to an infected surface. "It's to do with how the virus actually enters your system - it's* through the airways," says Dr Eilir Hughes, a GP and campaigner for more protective PPE for NHS staff.The virus takes hold in the body via the respiratory system - that's why testing for it involves a swab up the nose and down the back of the throat. It would take an extremely unlikely chain of events for infected droplets on an object to end up in someone's nose or throat. Hygiene is important, but washing hands and surfaces excessively, and avoiding touching objects - so-called "hygiene theatre" - has little impact on the spread of Covid."*

And especially as the demographic we are seeing 95% have had it and/or double vaccinated now.

@BusyLizzie61

The article isn't "gospel". No article should be treated as such, but it's consistent with everything else I've seen from credible scientific sources.

If you have anything that indicates the contrary, then please share. If not, you're simply scaremongering.

I've had a horrible stomach bug this week and am wondering how the heck I got it with all the covid precautions!

Not all ailments are spread person-to-person. You could have got it from food, or bacteria on surfaces at home?

@Dreamer2468

It is incrediably frustrating the number of places that insist of wiping down chairs etc everytime they are used but at the same time can't be bothered to open a window, or make people queue in confined areas whilst said chairs are wiped down. It is airbourne, why can't people understand this.

And that's another reason why the hygiene theatre isn't just pointless, but harmful.

People feel like they've made things "Covid safe" by doing pointless actions and relax... all the while not doing the very things that actually would make a difference.

It's a legacy from the very early days, when it was all about singing happy birthday while we washed our hands which, in hindsight, shows how clueless the world was at the beginning.

@BlondeRaven

Not read the whole thread, just commenting on initial op and a few comments I’ve scanned.

As someone with an autoimmune disease who has spent far too much time sick and unable to have a fulfilling life I very much love the “hygiene theatre” as you call it. The extra sanitising, hand washing, face mask wearing and social distancing has significantly improved my life along with many others. There are over 4 million people in the uk with auto immune conditions, I’ve no idea if they all feel the same but I do know the people I have spoken to have had a significant improvement in quality of life and health issues because of the extra precautions being used in daily life now.

I have an autoimmune disease. It hasn't improved my life. My health issues have not improved but the abuse at not being able to wear a mask (due to a different health condition) has been horrendous.

I appreciate everyone's autoimmune conditions affect them differently but for me, it's been an added pain in the arse. I don't expect others to sanitise their hands before they enter a shop or struggle to wear a mask to 'protect' me. I'm happy to take responsibility for my own health by making sure I wash my hands regularly, don't touch my face or whatever - all stuff I've been doing for years anyway.

I can't remember the last time I used the sanitiser at the door of the supermarket or wiped down my trolley. In fact, most people do now just walk past it, although a few do stop and make a massive performance out of using it.

I haven't done it in other shops either. Nor have I wiped down my shopping or quarantined my post/deliveries.

I did recently use all the sanitising stations when I had to go to two different hospital appointments because it made sense there. I will do so again at my next one in July.

I agree that much of what you see when out and about in towns is simply "hygiene theatre" and is ridiculous. I no longer take part in it and haven't for a very long time.

I always wash hands well after going to the toilet, before eating or preparing food and after doing anything filthy like clearing up after the dog and putting the bins out. That is good enough. I use soap and water mostly. Rarely hand sanitiser as it makes the skin on my hands go raw after not very many applications.

Yes, this hygiene theatre bullshit needs to end. Though it can be amusing sometimes to watch the song and dance that some people make of it.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

I hope it doesn't end.

Because it's a really good preventative measure against so many pathogens -noro and e-coli spring to mind, but I bet there are plenty of others

Sanitiser doesn’t work on norovirus and also totally destroys the protective barrier on your skin. Once used a few times in a short period it will create micro cracks in your skin that will be sore and risk infection getting in. That’s before we even get into the destruction of helpful bacteria and other bacteria that build and boost the immune system. It should NOT be used outside of the medical profession. Washing hands with soap before eating or after going to the loo / when you get home is more than enough. If anyone asks you to use sanitizer in a shop, say no thank you. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve used sanitiser in the past 18 months.

We should not be stopping adequate hand washing and sanitising that should not have needed the pandemic to remind us to do.

I agree. I went to a charity bookshop with my 4 year old yesterday. I was told I MUST visit the children's section first before making my way around the one way system through the rest of the shop.
My normal strategy is to check out the rest of the bookshop first and save the 'best bit' till the end. Of course this didn't happen and I didn't get to look at anything fir myself.

I turned around and left a small local shop last week when they told me I had to use their sanitiser before entering, despite them having just watched me sanitise my hands as I got to the door. I have a skin condition and have to be careful which I use.

Their prerogative, of course, but it is just so SILLY. I am scrupulous about masks, distance and hygiene, but the risk of me not putting (yet more) sanitiser on my hands is just minuscule that I wasn’t prepared to risk even more sore skin for an illusory benefit.

@TheVampiresWife
Also, not everyone can afford to 'spend a little bit more'. Some families will have already had to spend what amounts to a small fortune for them on masks, sanitiser and so on. A few pounds a week is a lot when you've not got much money.
If you're buying it so regularly, then you need to be making sensible buying choices. Why would you knowingly buy one that is not good for your skin?
Such situations require us to make sacrifices elsewhere, for our health.
I can buy small crap hand sanitiser for 75p or the hypoallergenic one, 500ml for £5 when on offer. So I buy the expensive version, when on offer, decanting into smaller bottles.
Yes it's more money, what's the alternative but to find this money?

I so agree! I was with a colleague at work the other day and we needed to go to a different building - she pressed a button to open the door, and also used a door handle, through her sleeve.

What on earth is she going to do when out and about in a vest top and shorts this summer? I am genuinely worried that we are giving a message that touching any surface is bad and could kill you. It does matter as it is damaging the nation's mental health and wasting time!

And the plastic waste we are creating is crazy! I went to the opticians a while ago and the staff were wiping down the seats between each person. WTF? I am not going to catch covid through my bum - nor yet give it to anyone that way. I wasn't planning on licking the chairs either. It's just wasteful and presumably an expense that is passed on to the customer.

[quote BusyLizzie61]@TheVampiresWife
Also, not everyone can afford to 'spend a little bit more'. Some families will have already had to spend what amounts to a small fortune for them on masks, sanitiser and so on. A few pounds a week is a lot when you've not got much money.
If you're buying it so regularly, then you need to be making sensible buying choices. Why would you knowingly buy one that is not good for your skin?
Such situations require us to make sacrifices elsewhere, for our health.
I can buy small crap hand sanitiser for 75p or the hypoallergenic one, 500ml for £5 when on offer. So I buy the expensive version, when on offer, decanting into smaller bottles.
Yes it's more money, what's the alternative but to find this money?[/quote]
£5 for hand sanitiser could be the equivalent of one or two meals. If your grocery budget for the week is £20, that's a quarter of it gone. Not everyone can 'find this money'. How lovely for you that it's not something you need to worry about. Millions of others aren't so fortunate.

@TheVampiresWife
£5 for hand sanitiser could be the equivalent of one or two meals. If your grocery budget for the week is £20, that's a quarter of it gone. Not everyone can 'find this money'. How lovely for you that it's not something you need to worry about. Millions of others aren't so fortunate.

But its not £5 a week is it.
Onve again, why would you purposely buy a product that's harmful, rather than not spending on one that meets your needs? £5 could be two meals, but swapping for beans on toast once a week would soon save you the money needed.
Priorities!

Yes it's more money, what's the alternative but to find this money?

Not using the bloody stuff continuously! I'm not eating beans on toast so I can buy hand sanitiser, I'll carry on washing my hands with soap and water the same as I've always done.

Reading some posts make me wonder how we all made it to adulthood...

Jesus wept...

If someone wants to use hand sanitiser or not touch a surface that's up to them.

It's not a theatrical performance put on for your benefit. Get your head out of your own arse - not everything is about you.

Similarly, if someone doesn't want to use sanitiser but you do then it's their fucking business.

Both sides in this kind of argument are cut from the same cloth. Irritating, nosy arsed, judgemental, whiny, wankers 😹😹

[quote BusyLizzie61]@TheVampiresWife
£5 for hand sanitiser could be the equivalent of one or two meals. If your grocery budget for the week is £20, that's a quarter of it gone. Not everyone can 'find this money'. How lovely for you that it's not something you need to worry about. Millions of others aren't so fortunate.

But its not £5 a week is it.
Onve again, why would you purposely buy a product that's harmful, rather than not spending on one that meets your needs? £5 could be two meals, but swapping for beans on toast once a week would soon save you the money needed.
Priorities![/quote]
Priorities are eating and paying bills. Some people are eating beans on toast to begin with. What do you suggest they swap it for?

If you have several DC it could easily be a fiver a week for sanitiser etc. Just wash your hands, y'know, like we used to. Utter madness to suggest that you should swap food for sanitiser.

@oatleytap

Jesus wept...

If someone wants to use hand sanitiser or not touch a surface that's up to them.

It's not a theatrical performance put on for your benefit. Get your head out of your own arse - not everything is about you.

Similarly, if someone doesn't want to use sanitiser but you do then it's their fucking business.

Both sides in this kind of argument are cut from the same cloth. Irritating, nosy arsed, judgemental, whiny, wankers 😹😹

It affects me if the opticians charges me extra for all the staff who spend lots of their time unnecessarily cleaning the seats and filling up landfill with disposable wipes.

Especially if that makes them think that's all that matters and they then sit face-to-face with me without wearing a mask.

Always makes me chuckle when they say please sanitise your hands upon entry when the staff aren’t wearing face masks or the store is at capacity with flimsy silky sparkly face masks and loads of green Amazon bought lanyards walking around.

It gives an illusion of safety, the idea that a blob of sticky gel is going to protect you against an airborne virus.

loads of green Amazon bought lanyards walking around

Or to put it another way, people who are exempt from wearing masks.

A year in and some people still can't get their head around the fact that not everyone can wear one.

@TheVampiresWife

loads of green Amazon bought lanyards walking around

Or to put it another way, people who are exempt from wearing masks.

A year in and some people still can't get their head around the fact that not everyone can wear one.

A year in and people still don’t understand that a fair few have hijacked the exemption card for their own benefit to avoid wearing masks without being challenged.

Of course there are genuine exemptions, however I know 2 asthmatics who are exempt but choose to wear masks to protect themselves.

@Thewiseoneincognito if you can wear a mask you're not exempt. A year in and that's something else people can't get their heads around. If you're exempt there's no choice as to whether you can wear one or not, and comments such as yours perpetuate the idea that those who are exempt just aren't trying hard enough.

If you walk into a shop and see 'loads' of lanyards it's neither fair, nor your place, to decide they they're 'Amazon bought' and not genuine. You don't need to buy them from Amazon anyway, they're free at customer services desks of supermarkets.

however I know 2 asthmatics who are exempt but choose to wear masks to protect themselves

If they can wear a mask they are therefore not exempt, it is quite simple. There is not a list that states that every asthmatic person is exempt, you are exempt if you are not able to wear a mask. It is really that simple.

Also I know very well that a minority take the piss. But that doesn't mean you have to judge everyone wearing one alike.

@oatleytap

Jesus wept...

If someone wants to use hand sanitiser or not touch a surface that's up to them.

It's not a theatrical performance put on for your benefit. Get your head out of your own arse - not everything is about you.

Similarly, if someone doesn't want to use sanitiser but you do then it's their fucking business.

Both sides in this kind of argument are cut from the same cloth. Irritating, nosy arsed, judgemental, whiny, wankers 😹😹

This.

If I'm santising my shopping trolley or hands I'm doing it for ME and MY benefit,
as I have been since I was 14 on the advice of my endocrinologist and haemotolgist because my body couldn't cope with pneumonia yet again from the common bloody cold and it's one of the tiny precautions I can take (along with avoiding crowds, avoiding exotic travel and "shielding" for most of winter
for over a decade) because although I look like any normal 30 something, my body is an utter twat that attacks itself and destroys it's own white blood cells 80% of the time. It's not a performance or a show. It's not theatre. And it's downright weird to take issue with what other people choose to do, wether it's wearing a mask, sanitising their hands or a shopping trolley. You do you. Stop imagining every person who santises their hands or wipes a trolley is a performative arsehole
putting on a spectacle.