Can we stop the "hygiene theatre"?

[Hamilbamil]

It's been said for a long time that the chances of transmission from surface contact and extremely small. I've copied an extract from a BBC article today below providing further details.

With this in mind, shouldn't we rein back on the "hygiene theatre" that has become part of daily life in so many places. In particular schools where, despite being in close proximity and massless all day, pupils and teachers spend an entirely disproportionate amount of time washing and sanitising. This isn't merely harmless activity, but actively reduces the amount of education our children are receiving as significant time is wasted carrying out these elaborate rituals.... all to give the false impression of being "Covid-safe".

Enough... Of course hygiene is good, but there's no excuse now to get back to normality in this area.

"At the start of the pandemic, a lot of focus was on surfaces. People washed groceries and avoided touching buttons at pedestrian crossings. Councils shut playgrounds and cordoned off park benches.Yet it's been all but impossible to find an outbreak linked to an infected surface. "It's to do with how the virus actually enters your system - it's* through the airways," says Dr Eilir Hughes, a GP and campaigner for more protective PPE for NHS staff.The virus takes hold in the body via the respiratory system - that's why testing for it involves a swab up the nose and down the back of the throat. It would take an extremely unlikely chain of events for infected droplets on an object to end up in someone's nose or throat. Hygiene is important, but washing hands and surfaces excessively, and avoiding touching objects - so-called "hygiene theatre" - has little impact on the spread of Covid."*

Went to London today for the first time in ages and was surprised to hear on the tube ‘when you lower your mask to eat or drink, please ensure your hands are clean’

That’s the most excessive / treating us all like children / bizarre thing I’ve heard in a covid tannoy announcement I think. Firstly it’s incredibly patronising and secondly there’s no hand washing faciiities on the tube!

Are toilet flushes and touching your face, phone, sunglasses, for example, all that rare in a day?

No. What they now know is unlikely is the virus being hardy enough to survive these kind of transfers from surface to hand to face.

The diamond princess incident was extremely early on. It’s much more likely that at that stage they didn’t understand the role of asymptomatic transmission among individuals in the very earliest stages of the disease.

I agree about using sanitiser. But hope that companies being required to keep premises a lot cleaner stays. Some shops, trains, pubs and schools were absolutely fucking filthy and disgusting pre-Covid. I'm glad they've had to give them a deep clean and long may regular good cleaning continue.

Yup, my 2m hazard tape around my desk is really going to protect me from my classes of 32.

We need the guidance for schools to change so risk assessments can change.

God yes. I went on holiday last week & the bloody remote control was in a ziplock bag that we weren’t allowed to remove 🤯 it’s madness! Just give the remote a disinfect and it’s perfectly OK for the next family to use?!

My hairdresser is using tonnes & tonnes of plastic with one wear plastic aprons. WHY? Just wipe the things they put over your shoulders between customers, how on earth can I catch covid from a apron that goes over my shoulders?! It’s insanity!

I rarely wash my hands on entry to shops now, there used to be people monitoring it but not now. I do wash on exit so basically the same thing as my hands are clean for the next shop! I’m not doing it twice on shopping trip, I hate alcohol gel, it makes my hands so sore!

I’d like it to stay in schools. My kid has only come home with two colds!! That’s record breaking achievement as normally that’s just in one term.

Quarantined xmas cards makes sense though, because if one child has even just a innocent cold, it would spread through the whole class. (Some people lick envelopes to seal them)

I do agree with you that it is a performance spectacle. Especially in shops etc.

But at the same time, the more frequent washing of hands etc has actually been claimed to be reducing other viruses and illnesses etc. I have family who work in hospitals and this is the first year NONE of the hospitals have been hit with norovirus.

Surely being able to wash your hands properly is a decent life skill that most of the population could benefit from (unfortunately some kids don't get taught it at home).

No. What they now know is unlikely is the virus being hardy enough to survive these kind of transfers from surface to hand to face

Is covid really the only disease people wish to avoid?

I don't see the improved hygiene in public places as lunacy.

@MaybeCrazy2

Quarantined xmas cards makes sense though, because if one child has even just a innocent cold, it would spread through the whole class. (Some people lick envelopes to seal them)

I'd love to see the evidence that shows anyone has EVER caught something from a licked envelope.

Especially when the giver of the card and the receiver are usually sitting together in the same classroom for 5 hours a day.

@Hamilbamil

It's been said for a long time that the chances of transmission from surface contact and extremely small. I've copied an extract from a BBC article today below providing further details.

With this in mind, shouldn't we rein back on the "hygiene theatre" that has become part of daily life in so many places. In particular schools where, despite being in close proximity and massless all day, pupils and teachers spend an entirely disproportionate amount of time washing and sanitising. This isn't merely harmless activity, but actively reduces the amount of education our children are receiving as significant time is wasted carrying out these elaborate rituals.... all to give the false impression of being "Covid-safe".

Enough... Of course hygiene is good, but there's no excuse now to get back to normality in this area.

"At the start of the pandemic, a lot of focus was on surfaces. People washed groceries and avoided touching buttons at pedestrian crossings. Councils shut playgrounds and cordoned off park benches.Yet it's been all but impossible to find an outbreak linked to an infected surface. "It's to do with how the virus actually enters your system - it's* through the airways," says Dr Eilir Hughes, a GP and campaigner for more protective PPE for NHS staff.The virus takes hold in the body via the respiratory system - that's why testing for it involves a swab up the nose and down the back of the throat. It would take an extremely unlikely chain of events for infected droplets on an object to end up in someone's nose or throat. Hygiene is important, but washing hands and surfaces excessively, and avoiding touching objects - so-called "hygiene theatre" - has little impact on the spread of Covid."*

Yet not one source was quoted!

Rachel Schraer has tried her hand at all sort of reporting. Doesn't make what she says Gospel does it?

@Hamilbamil
Sanitising to the point hands become cracks and painful;
Tbh fairly early on in the pandemic we had to find a hand sanitiser that was suitable for very sensitive skin that was already sore after a week of school handgel. I did this. I have spent a little bit more, but we've been able to use this very regularly throughout the day.

If you cba to do the same, that's your issue. There are many varieties out there. Cheap and cheerful will be exactly that. Stop complaining and be proactive.

I agree it’s really frustrating. So little point in the kids putting gel on their hands every 5 minutes just so schools feel like they are doing something. Our school banned football because they didn’t want the kids all touching the same ball! Yet they are in class all day together sharing the same airspace.

Is covid really the only disease people wish to avoid?

I’m not sure avoiding things like colds is actually good for us. Our immune systems have had little enough work to do.

What I definitely want to avoid is a huge eczema flair up in my toddler, from idiots squirting sanitiser on his hands.

If you cba to do the same, that's your issue.

You can fuck off with this kind of chat. My child’s paediatric dermatologist described sanitiser as the ‘work of the devil’.

The best one is our local estate agents not providing printed particulars because passing a piece of paper to someone is obviously a massive COVID risk and the "government" say it's not allowed!

It is incrediably frustrating the number of places that insist of wiping down chairs etc everytime they are used but at the same time can't be bothered to open a window, or make people queue in confined areas whilst said chairs are wiped down. It is airbourne, why can't people understand this.

It's the landfills full of PPE that is so heartbreaking, it's so bloody unnecessary now. Every time I see disposable gloves or masks lying on the pavement it gives me a little jolt of rage. Enough now!

And the temperature taking - FFS . I take ds to the orthodontist, sometimes they do it and sometime they clearly can't be arsed. Just stop doing it!

@Escapetothecounty

I'm sick of being asked/expected to sanitise my hands when I enter every shop. Especially when it's barked at you as soon as you cross the threshold like my local charity shop.

Charity shops are ridiculous with this. There are three next door to each other on my local high street and if you go into all of them, you're expected to sanitise each time. One of them has this disgusting sanitiser which smells of cheese in a huge pump dispenser that's always filthy. I said I'd use my own and they wouldn't let me in because I could be putting anything on my hands apparently.

[quote BusyLizzie61]@Hamilbamil
Sanitising to the point hands become cracks and painful;
Tbh fairly early on in the pandemic we had to find a hand sanitiser that was suitable for very sensitive skin that was already sore after a week of school handgel. I did this. I have spent a little bit more, but we've been able to use this very regularly throughout the day.

If you cba to do the same, that's your issue. There are many varieties out there. Cheap and cheerful will be exactly that. Stop complaining and be proactive.[/quote]
Unnecessarily nasty.

Also, not everyone can afford to 'spend a little bit more'. Some families will have already had to spend what amounts to a small fortune for them on masks, sanitiser and so on. A few pounds a week is a lot when you've not got much money.

I'm a charity shop volunteer and we do have a large pump dispenser of sanitiser at the door. But there's nobody standing there policing it, and you're more than welcome inside without using it.

Volunteers aren't sanitising every 5 minutes either, just washing hands in the same way as we used to. Before we opened last July after the first lockdown we were sent about 5 boxes of those blue plastic gloves. Nobody uses them for covid prevention purposes, but they are really useful when cleaning jewellery with smelly cleaning products.

Mainly because diarrhoea and vomiting incidences have plummeted in the time

I've had a horrible stomach bug this week and am wondering how the heck I got it with all the covid precautions!

I think the Diamond Princess wasn't surfaces but by aerosols.

Cabins aren't airtight obviously and staff delivered meals, towels and so on.

Not read the whole thread, just commenting on initial op and a few comments I’ve scanned.

As someone with an autoimmune disease who has spent far too much time sick and unable to have a fulfilling life I very much love the “hygiene theatre” as you call it. The extra sanitising, hand washing, face mask wearing and social distancing has significantly improved my life along with many others. There are over 4 million people in the uk with auto immune conditions, I’ve no idea if they all feel the same but I do know the people I have spoken to have had a significant improvement in quality of life and health issues because of the extra precautions being used in daily life now.

I too get annoyed with the irrationality of it.

In my work we’re now in the office a bit more, we’re in a role where we do home visits sometimes, but at the moment only when strictly necessary and we can’t do what we need to do over phone or video call.
We wear full PPE.
They have made a rule that if you go on a visit you’re not allowed to come back to the office afterwards.

Makes no sense to me. We pop out at lunchtime to the shops and come back to the office.

It’s annoying for me as I only get one day a week in the office, if I have to do a visit at 10.30 then go home that’s my day in the office gone.
I live quite far from the area we serve so makes sense for me to do visits on my office days.
It’s very annoying and illogical