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Can anyone explain to me how this is different to flu now please?

173 replies

musicalfrog · 08/06/2021 12:11

Apart from the overseas thing, I get that other countries don't have as much protection as we do.

So -

Covid is a respiratory disease as is flu.

We now have our most vulnerable population fully vaccinated (as with flu).

Covid mutates. Just like flu. So we change the vaccine every year, same with covid.

So why are we still in this situation, wearing masks and distancing and all the other bollocks we're going for covid but don't do for flu?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 09/06/2021 20:21

However, virologists are concerned about RSV, a virus that can cause serious lung infections requiring hospital admission, and sometimes even death, in children under the age of one – and for which there are no approved vaccines

I agree with your general points @AlecTrevelyan006 but we do have an effective vaccine for RSV. It is very expensive though, hence used only for the most vulnerable babies eg. Extreme prematurity

eviesmum · 09/06/2021 20:39

@Tealightsandd
Death is inevitable to us all. We hope we and our loved ones live a long, healthy life with minimal suffering at the end.
So not Covid then. That's generally not a good death. A frightening lonely isolated one, yes.

Exactly, I have witness first-hand, many timw over a number of weeks just how lonely and frightening the end is. My observation of being on a covid ward were that family wwrenonlynoermitted in right at the end, when all hope was gone and the patient was too far in to even know.

Horrific

eviesmum · 09/06/2021 20:40

Apologies for typos, one of the many side effects of long covid, eyes, brain and fingers not so well connected

AnyFucker · 09/06/2021 20:45

We will be judged harshly for the way we have treated the dying and their bereaved families, of that I am sure

MedSchoolRat · 09/06/2021 20:46

Syndromically, covid is very much like flu. That hasn't changed.

Some public health experts ARE pushing for other respiratory viruses to be treated much more like covid -- for masking etc. to become more routine in future. "Let's treat Flu like covid" so they won't be different after all. :( Don't blame me - I wouldn't have gone down this path at all.

Others reckon that's a ticking time bomb approach because residual immunity to all the other respy viruses will decline if social distancing is kept high (linked to a variety of immunological reasons I don't fully understand). There are predictions of big flu outbreaks right after C19 pandemic finishes. Everything AlecT said, basically.

ragged · 09/06/2021 20:49

Have you heard of flu causing blood clots

6% of pandemic flu cases in this study.

ragged · 09/06/2021 20:52

(Covid is) an inflammatory disease that attacks the respiratory system

2017 article: "The inflammatory response triggered by Influenza virus: a two edged sword"

ragged · 09/06/2021 20:54

2004: "There is mounting evidence in support of a significant role for influenza infection in the development of atherosclerosis and the triggering of its complications."

I think I'm tired of shooting fish in this barrel.

wombatspoopcubes · 09/06/2021 21:21

If after 18 months of the Covid pandemic you still compare it to the flu then either you made an effort to dodge all knowledge about Covid or you lack the capacity to understand the science. The first reason would make you very stupid, if it's the second reason then please just believe the majority of prominent scientists.

Tealightsandd · 09/06/2021 21:28

I'm particularly concerned that some people seem to want some of these things to go on forever: forced working from home even after the pandemic, mask use for colds, etc. It's like a dystopian future.

Yes. It's a huge concern (except for the suggestion of East Asian style courtesy towards others, by wearing a mask when ill).

Some of most vocal anti containment measures voices will be coming from people who want to permanently change society. Often (as with full-time WFH) at the expense of widening the inequality gap and significant lowering of standards - from customer service to support organisations to quality of life.

Our children will know who to blame if we allow them to grow up and old in a future with endemic Covid, forever at risk of Long Covid disability.

They'll see what Australia, New Zealand, East Asia, and parts of Africa did, and they'll know it wasn't inevitable. They'll know it could have been suppressed.

Had we all taken the same common sense and basic infection control measures that the more sensible countries did, this would have all been over a year ago.

Right now we are at a crossroads. Not yet at the point of no return. Put in place temporary border control including proper quarantine, get T&T working, mask adherance.

Then get the majority of the population fully vaccinated. Here, and the rest of the world. Hopefully Biden's talks with the drugs companies will be successful. He's right that temporary patent waiver is part of the way out if this mess).

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 09/06/2021 22:27

@ragged

Have you heard of flu causing blood clots

6% of pandemic flu cases in this study.

In hospitalised patients, compared to 20-30% for Covid.

6% is not the same as 20-30%, especially since the rate of hospitalisation is higher for covid than flu.

BogRollBOGOF · 09/06/2021 22:51

Death is inevitable to us all. We hope we and our loved ones live a long, healthy life with minimal suffering at the end. Covid is not a massive game-changer on life expectancy. Either way, lockdowns and shielding have hit elderly people hard and accelerated aging faster than the usual rate. The next few winters will be harsh on frailer, old people who haven't been active and socialising which maintains their immune systems; Covid or the usual suspects.

Nice minimalisation of a virus that has killed so many elderly people. I don't know why you feel the need to do this.

Ultimately the elderly people in my family have aged rapidly in the past 15 months and lost life expectancy. They may have been kept "safe" from Covid over this time, but it's reality that they are far weaker than they were and will not recover that lost physical and mental stimulation. Accepting that their lives are finite is pragmatic.

Having been a child who went to her dad's funeral before he was even mid-50s, and losing another close relative that I grew up with in their 40s, it's quality of life I rate over longevity for the sake of it. It's not nice when it's the police car pulled up outside the house not your dad...

Admittedly Covid is a harder way to go than dying suddenly in the street (which was worse for the chap trying CPR), but it's not necessarily the worst way to go if we're playing Top Trumps about it and on a par with many comon pneumonia related conditions. Personally I'd fear being incapacitated within my own body for years first.

Having lost close family prematurely, I'm just not afraid to admit that life is finite.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/06/2021 23:03

Ultimately the elderly people in my family have aged rapidly in the past 15 months and lost life expectancy. They may have been kept "safe" from Covid over this time, but it's reality that they are far weaker than they were and will not recover that lost physical and mental stimulation.

interesting comment - my wife was chatting to her brother on the phone earlier and they are both of the view that parents (mid 70s) have aged rapidly since the pandemic began and have gone from being very sprightly and active to being very slow and frail.

Sad times.

Tealightsandd · 09/06/2021 23:12

@AlecTrevelyan006

Ultimately the elderly people in my family have aged rapidly in the past 15 months and lost life expectancy. They may have been kept "safe" from Covid over this time, but it's reality that they are far weaker than they were and will not recover that lost physical and mental stimulation.

interesting comment - my wife was chatting to her brother on the phone earlier and they are both of the view that parents (mid 70s) have aged rapidly since the pandemic began and have gone from being very sprightly and active to being very slow and frail.

Sad times.

Yes. It's so sad.

And so unnecessary.

I have family in Australia and NZ. The elderly relatives are living life to the full. As are the younger ones.

TheClaws · 10/06/2021 02:19

Admittedly Covid is a harder way to go than dying suddenly in the street (which was worse for the chap trying CPR), but it's not necessarily the worst way to go if we're playing Top Trumps about it and on a par with many comon pneumonia related conditions. Personally I'd fear being incapacitated within my own body for years first.

BOGOF, this is offensive. How can you possibly know what is the worse way to die? And i say this as someone whose mother died with early-onset dementia and cancer at 56 in a care home. It was a horrific time. But your consistent downplaying and minimisation of Covid is bemusing to me.

WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith · 10/06/2021 02:59

The whole ‘Covid is the same as Flu’ argument is bemusing. It’s been thoroughly explained in detail, many times, many ways on this thread and on every media going for over a year. In fact Flu is actually often sadly referred to as “old mans best friend” referencing the peaceful way that elderly patients often succumb to it whilst sleeping. Quite the opposite of what everybody knows about Covid deaths. Unless you have been living under a rock for a year. This thread needs to stop its pointless, covid deniers and anti-lockdown protestors pretending to want explanations. But not listening and only listing negatives of lockdowns & restrictions, which we all know anyway. Yes we have vaccines, but we’re not quite done yet. OP states they understand the international issues, but I don’t actually think you do at all. I think you’re talking a heck of a lot of rubbish. The denying, minimising and actually, most accurately described as gaslighting (if we’re going to start bringing that term into covid debates) is surreal. I don’t like to misuse the term gaslighting but it and is being used to influence opinion. What an abusive way to tackle such a serious global issue. There are plenty of places that you can learn about covid-19, so off you trot please 🙂

Lightscribe · 10/06/2021 05:29

[quote time4anothername]Covid is not a respiratory disease, where have you been that you still think that way? Yes the lungs are affected by it and it is incredibly dangerous when they are, because severe Covid is a syndrome that has inflammation and blood clotting at its' centre and when lungs are affected the parts of the lung that get oxygen from the lung into the body where it is needed are blocked up.
www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/what-does-covid-do-to-your-blood
Looking after a case of severe Covid affecting the lungs is hell for HCPs (trigger warning, do not read the next sentence if you are going through a Covid bereavement) , you watch someone suffocating to death and have to make decisions about whether to "make them comfortable" with opioids that will reduce their distress and the distress to those witnessing it while also potentially dangerously suppressing their breathing as that's what opioids do (hence the thousands of deaths worldwide from prescription opioid addiction)
If you put your HCPs through that day after day, week after week, you break them and then you have no functioning health care system. Cases of PTSD in HCPs who worked through the SARS 1 outbreaks in Canada are well documented and that was a tiny outbreak compared to SARS Cov 2.
Covid had brought a massive shock to our under-funded, under-capacity healthcare system and to ourselves as we have had the luxury of being complacent about public health for the last 50ish years since the advent of vaccines and mass produced antibiotics.

The healthcare system now has to budget for thousands of new patients with Covid after effects. There's so much focus on death in the media or long Covid just as a fatigue issue and I don't know why they quote death numbers only everyday because it detracts from the amount of ongoing organ damage that is also going to be overloading the health care system for years to come.

e.g. kidney after affects (and there are similar increased levels of healthcare involvement needed for other organs)
"given that kidney disease does not produce symptoms until very late, we would like to make people who have had COVID-19 disease aware of the possibility of long-term consequences on the kidneys. It's important that general practitioners check their patients' kidney values (GFR, albuminuria) on a regular basis - similarly to other groups at risk of kidney disease, such as patients with diabetes mellitus and high blood pressure.""

www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-06/e-clc060521.php[/quote]
Erm doesn’t cause a respiratory disease? The WHO doesn’t seem to agree with you.

www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-similarities-and-differences-with-influenza

Please don’t listen to any have-a-go ‘experts’ on here. Most will be using dubious information to drive home their own beliefs.

Trewawgy · 10/06/2021 06:08

“ In fact Flu is actually often sadly referred to as “old mans best friend” referencing the peaceful way that elderly patients often succumb to it whilst sleeping”

Pretty sure that’s pneumonia. Which can be a secondary complication of a number of diseases, including both flu and covid.

There are many differences between flu and covid but on this point they are similar!

Alondra · 10/06/2021 11:39

There is a great article on Republik on Christian Drosten, a german virologist who probably knows more about Covid than anyone else....

Have a read....www.republik.ch/2021/06/05/herr-drosten-woher-kam-dieses-virus

QioiioiioQ · 10/06/2021 12:15

oh come on you can do better than that... one must get one's colloquialisms right!
It is pneumonia which has been been nicknamed 'old man's friend'
(not his 'best' friend, his best friend is his dog, obviously)

0None0 · 10/06/2021 12:42

How is it different to flu? The death rate is 100x higher. The disability rate is 1000x higher. We do not know how long the vaccines will work for. I hope this clarifies for you

Ormally · 10/06/2021 13:41

Alondra, thank you for that article. So much to ponder.

Cornettoninja · 10/06/2021 14:01

[quote Alondra]There is a great article on Republik on Christian Drosten, a german virologist who probably knows more about Covid than anyone else....

Have a read....www.republik.ch/2021/06/05/herr-drosten-woher-kam-dieses-virus[/quote]
Thanks, this was interesting.

This struck me. (From running it through my own translation software)

False balance?

That you say: Okay, here's a majority opinion, which is represented by a hundred scientists. But then there are these two scientists who argue the opposite. In the media presentation, however, one of these hundred is then set against one of these two. And then it looks like it's 50:50, a conflict of opinion. And then what's actually the problem with it happens, which is that politics says, "Well, then the truth will be in the middle." That is the false compromise in the middle. And that's something I didn't know qualitatively. I didn't know this phenomenon existed. I also didn't know that this is so persistent and inevitably sets in. This problem has arisen in practically all countries. All the scientists talk about it. That I reingerate through a podcast in the middle of this field of tension, was not clear to me

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