Can anyone explain to me how this is different to flu now please?

[musicalfrog]

Apart from the overseas thing, I get that other countries don't have as much protection as we do.

So -

Covid is a respiratory disease as is flu.

We now have our most vulnerable population fully vaccinated (as with flu).

Covid mutates. Just like flu. So we change the vaccine every year, same with covid.

So why are we still in this situation, wearing masks and distancing and all the other bollocks we're going for covid but don't do for flu?

Basically one is Covid-19 and one is the flu. Please ponder the difference over this

Regarding ‘working’ the immune system, I understand that allergies have risen as exposure to nuts, for example, has declined. Light exposure to an allergen seems to make some people less susceptible to serious allergy.

Ah @Greentrees2021 has explained it much better than I can! Thank you.

Less serious for the young. That's one difference. There's certainly nothing that makes it worse than the flu.

A big difference seems to be that the incubation period before showing symptoms (if this happens) is far longer with Covid than with flu, and for that period you are both infectious and a likely spreader, but unaware.

There are 2 graphs towards the bottom of this page
informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

'How contagious and deadly is it?' which compares it to other global effects from problematic communicable disease - including those that developed economies have got used to thinking are no big deal because of clean water etc - and the graph that is below.

Seasonal flu's onset (contagious and after infection, but before being aware of this) - about 4 or 5 days. Swine flu around 7. Covid - still determining, but catching up to SARS and MERS at 14/15 days.

@musicalfrog

My point, swimlyn, was that in that sense it is the same as flu. Well done for missing it.

Oh damn.

Your dazzling clear thinking has destroyed my peace of mind now.

@strangeshapedpotato

This is one reason why a high number of flu deaths are expected during the coming 2021/22 winter.

That's because there wasn't a flu season last year, so immunity levels to the virus may have waned due to lack of exposure to flu.

It's quite a different thing to suggest our immune systems are better off with exercise.

It's the equivalent of saying everyone should drive around drunk all the time so that they get used to it, so that when they DO need to drive home drunk, they are less likely to have an accident.

There is also the concern that low levels of flu in circulation globally makes our prediction information sparse. We follow what happens in the Southern Hemisphere to predict which flu vaccines we need.

So why are we still in this situation, wearing masks and distancing and all the other bollocks we're going for covid but don't do for flu?

@musicalfrog you’ve had loads of explanations about how covid is different to flu but to address this last point; we’re still wearing masks and distancing because it takes time for vaccines to be distributed and immunity to develop. We’re creating an artificial immunity barrier in the population to counter the fact that no one has any inherent immunity to anything like covid because it’s a novel (brand new) virus.

I’m not sure that on an individual level it makes much difference if it’s a strain of flu, a new strain of norovirus, covid or Ebola. The factors that make covid disruptive would be the same if enough of the population don’t have any immune defences.

We have implemented measures against strains of flu before (swine flu got the statutory sick leave raised to fourteen days for instance - plenty of businesses were pissed off about that) and the 1918 flu had people in masks and distancing.

It was a surprise to those in charge that this pandemic wasn’t caused by a flu strain, but things would have been similar if the strain was strong enough and evaded vaccines.

@Chatterbox1987

You can't compare the diseases. However on an average flu year 10,000 people die. That's an average of just under 30 deaths a day from flu (although I get most happen over the winter)

Personally I think if we can get to a stage of being fully open with an average of less than 50 deaths a day then that needs to be used as the future bench mark for acceptable deaths per day.

Yes not the same disease but similar levels of acceptance

I think if delay by two weeks it’s due to the double dose for 30s and 40s but after that we should be the same as flu reaction

Although variant situation tbc

@Chatterbox1987

You can't compare the diseases. However on an average flu year 10,000 people die. That's an average of just under 30 deaths a day from flu (although I get most happen over the winter)

Personally I think if we can get to a stage of being fully open with an average of less than 50 deaths a day then that needs to be used as the future bench mark for acceptable deaths per day.

Will that 50 covid deaths per day be in addition to 30 flu deaths per day?

I have been asking for a while how people think the NHS wold cope with over twice the numbers dying in hospital - we barely coped with flu season before Covid.

If deaths more than double from pre-Covid levels, the NHS will have to restrict things somewhat every winter presumably.

Of course the main difference is that we haven't been fed propaganda for a year about flu so people don't go round terrified out of their wits by it. It's mass neurosis.

In addition to the excellent information on what sort of virus covid is, and its various systemic impacts, there is also long covid. This has affected (at a conservative estimate) 700,000 people. Flu has not caused issues like that in our recent history, so the "masks and bollocks like that" are a necessary evil. Sorry.

It's mass neurosis

BIWI I wasn’t saying I think that. Or that I don’t think that. I was saying that posters having been saying it with absolute authority (see the post by time4anothername for example) and then others have been coming along and very scientifically proving the opposite. While this is the case, I don’t think we can belittle posters who are saying they don’t understand. (You haven’t belittled anyone-I’m not saying you)

@Chatterbox1987

You can't compare the diseases. However on an average flu year 10,000 people die. That's an average of just under 30 deaths a day from flu (although I get most happen over the winter)

Personally I think if we can get to a stage of being fully open with an average of less than 50 deaths a day then that needs to be used as the future bench mark for acceptable deaths per day.

I agree that there needs to be an agreed level of acceptability of covid infection and fatality, but it’s not a quick process.

If we agree that 50 deaths a day is acceptable we then have to prove that it’s possible to maintain with the tools we have and only time can give us that proof.

And if we pick a number of acceptable deaths we also need to remember that for every death their their will numerous people left with serious complications or with long covid.

It really isn’t as simple as dead or alive when it comes to covid

@Sirzy

And if we pick a number of acceptable deaths we also need to remember that for every death their their will numerous people left with serious complications or with long covid.

It really isn’t as simple as dead or alive when it comes to covid

How much health care does this use? I know it’s blunt question anc an awful thing to happen, but is a factor re capacity.

@musicalfrog

Apart from the overseas thing, I get that other countries don't have as much protection as we do.

So -

Covid is a respiratory disease as is flu.

We now have our most vulnerable population fully vaccinated (as with flu).

Covid mutates. Just like flu. So we change the vaccine every year, same with covid.

So why are we still in this situation, wearing masks and distancing and all the other bollocks we're going for covid but don't do for flu?

I doubt that anybody can because you won't be prepared to listen and THINK

"acceptable deaths per day" which dystopian TV show have I wandered into here?

@godmum56

"acceptable deaths per day" which dystopian TV show have I wandered into here?

Not TV bit Chris Whitty talks about this.

So we’re going for zero deaths?

Covid is new ergo we do not have long-term data regarding immunity
The vaccines are also new which means we don't have long-term data about them

Well exactly. Scientists talk about acceptable levels of deaths. Not on hysterical Mumsnet though. It’s dystopian to mention that.
There will always be deaths from Covid. Every year.

@hazelnutcrackers

Less serious for the young. That's one difference. There's certainly nothing that makes it worse than the flu.

Is it totally pitch black in your rabbit hole of denial? Did you get excited at the internet issue today and think all your conspiracy theories had come true

@godmum56

"acceptable deaths per day" which dystopian TV show have I wandered into here?

The same one with a road network and private car ownership.

Nobody is holding up immortality as a benchmark.

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me understand. FWIW I consider myself fairly well informed in most areas but I'm not a medical expert (as is apparent!) I read a lot of threads on here, and news etc, but much of what I've read this afternoon has been new information.