What do you think will change for the fully vaccinated

[patsyA]

My sister and her husband are living in the US (have done for many years)

They are both fully vaccinated and things there are different for them now, the rule there is, once you are fully vaccinated you can live a “pre pandemic” life.

For instance, they are no longer required to socially distance.
They don’t have to wear masks (unless required by federal, state or local laws)
If they have been in contact with a positive Covid case, they do not have to test or self isolate, unless they develop symptoms.

What changes do you think we will see here in the UK for the fully vaccinated?

Nothing. Far too many have jumped the shark and don't want any of this to end.

I would hope we would see the same, but we maybe won't as far too many people are really enjoyingthe misery fest of the pandemic.

If we don't get similar then you have to wonder what the point of the vaccine rollout is if not to allow proper opening up and ditching of bloody masks.

The US is culturally very different, they generally put much more emphasis on individual freedoms compared to the UK and Europe where we tend to think of what's best for society as a whole. The vaccine roll out in the US opened up to anyone who wanted one much quicker too, and they are doing second doses after the manufacturer recommended time (approx 4 weeks), so people have had a lot more choice about getting vaccinated quickly. Many of us here in the UK would love to be fully vaccinated but just can't yet because our age group isn't eligible/2nd doses are not given earlier than 8-12 weeks.

It is also extremely difficult to enforce any such rules. A friend who owns a shop in the US is still going to be requiring masks to be worn inside her (small) shop for example, because she has no idea otherwise if those who say they are vaccinated actually are. There's already been cases of fake vaccination certificates.

I agree with a pp that the US is a very different place. My mum lives in a liberal state and is pretty much living a normal life. She always visits us in August but doesn't want to come this year as she can't face ten days quarantine ( at my house), wearing a mask everywhere or £££ for numerous tests.

I think we should open up more for the fully vaccinated, but I don't think we will. I was absolutely for lockdown, staying home, being cautious last year when we had no vaccines and thousands were in hospital. But the circumstances are different now. Those who are vaccinated are not getting ill enough to be serious. We have to start life again.

I get the impression that what you "can do if fully vaccinated" in USA, also varies by state. Some states have no formal restrictions at all (Florida?).

CDC issues guidance while most of the actual legal restrictions that could get you in actual trouble, are imposed at state level. At no time did anywhere (NYC, maybe?) have such strong laws as we have here in England, unless you count schools staying closed as a big deal -- I get impression many MNers think schools closed is trivial problem.

The infrastructure to keep tracking vaccine status & impose penalties for not having approved-of vaccine status is going to defeat most situations. It can't last. Especially if boosters are desirable.

My (American) parents are fully jabbed but will only socialise or be near other people (barring mask situations like in supermarket) in very small groups comprised of only other fully-jabbed+3 weeks people. It's not "pre-pandemic" life at all for them, although it is hugely more normal looking than my life (they go on airplanes, to restaurants, see lots of friends, go to work, etc., which I mostly cannot do yet).

There's lots talk in UK about vaccine certificates but only in limited situations, typically where people are paying a lot of money to be there anyway and some identity tracking already happens (eg., festivals, big sporting events). I'm sure festival organisers will be very happy to lose the costs & burden of all that vaccine-status tracking asap, although maybe won't become rare until 2023/24.

It’s a bloody nonsense here so it is. Fully vaccinated and still having to be treated as a leper. USA seems much more sensible.

@RedcurrantPuff

It’s a bloody nonsense here so it is. Fully vaccinated and still having to be treated as a leper. USA seems much more sensible.

@RedcurrantPuff

Are you treating the unvaccinated as lepers?
Because many young people haven’t yet been called for their vaccines.

How many people in the UK have protested about vaccine certificates/passport, citing discrimination etc.

How would it be fair here, in a country which has worked down the age groups to vaccinate, to allow freedoms for those who are fully vaccinated but not those who haven't even had the opportunity to have the vaccine? People in their 20s haven't even been called for their vaccines yet- why the hell should they continue to suffer restrictions when they've been low risk all along and these measures were never intended to protect them?

I say that as a fully vaccinated 33 yr old. I don't support opening up more for those who are vaccinated. We had to listen to that god awful phrase 'we're all in this together' enough last year- well the same applies now.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

How would it be fair here, in a country which has worked down the age groups to vaccinate, to allow freedoms for those who are fully vaccinated but not those who haven't even had the opportunity to have the vaccine? People in their 20s haven't even been called for their vaccines yet- why the hell should they continue to suffer restrictions when they've been low risk all along and these measures were never intended to protect them?

I say that as a fully vaccinated 33 yr old. I don't support opening up more for those who are vaccinated. We had to listen to that god awful phrase 'we're all in this together' enough last year- well the same applies now.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

No, you’re right. That wouldn’t be fair on the people who aren’t yet eligible.

In the US they haven’t worked in age order, certainly not in my sisters state, so no age group is having to wait longer than the other.

I guess I was wondering more form the point at which all adults will have been eligible for a vaccine, 1st and second dose.

At that point, if cases are still high (driven by those who chose to remain unvaccinated) how will life change for the fully vaccinated.

@patsyA I could just about tolerate it when everyone has had the opportunity to have it but I don't like vaccine compulsion really- well, especially when it would be so inconsistent with the UK's approach to all other vaccines. And I say this as someone who has taken up every vaccine on offer throughout my life, have done the same for my DC (in fact paid privately for them to have the Men B jab) and who generally thinks anti-vaxxers are stupid.

People should have the right to choose what they put into their own body and not be denied basic human freedoms if they choose not to have a vaccine. I think most of the time they're idiots but I think autonomy over one's body trumps everything else. And I'm pissed off that COVID is being treated differently. This is an illness that overwhelmingly affects the elderly/vulnerable. Why is their not the same focus given to childhood vaccines- if we go down the route of taking away basic freedoms for those who choose not to have the COVID vaccine, then we should surely do the same for allowing entry to schools with regards to childhood vaccinations? Don't they do this in Italy? Why isn't there consideration for the children who perhaps can't have childhood vaccines for genuine medical reasons- why should they have to attend school with unvaccinated children who could have had their jabs?

I'm not saying that's what I think should happen- I'm just saying that we don't take that approach with other vaccines for illnesses that can be incredibly dangerous for young children, and frankly I'm sick of everything being about COVID and it being treated differently, when compared to other illnesses it is really quite mild. We couldn't even do a catch up programme for the under 5s in the UK when the men B jab came out, hence me paying privately for my DC- and meningitis is a terrifying illness with very poor outcomes for a high number of the children who contract it.

The UK is somewhat of an outlier in not offering privileges for the fully vaccinated - but it’s because we haven’t offered it to all ages groups yet, so there would be a backlash at this point.

Lots of places that have 'freedom' for the vaccinated, have opened vaccination to anyone over 18 (or 16). So, it's more of a choice whether you get vaccinated or not.

It's not fair for 20 somethings to not be able to be normal here, just based on their age.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

How would it be fair here, in a country which has worked down the age groups to vaccinate, to allow freedoms for those who are fully vaccinated but not those who haven't even had the opportunity to have the vaccine? People in their 20s haven't even been called for their vaccines yet- why the hell should they continue to suffer restrictions when they've been low risk all along and these measures were never intended to protect them?

I say that as a fully vaccinated 33 yr old. I don't support opening up more for those who are vaccinated. We had to listen to that god awful phrase 'we're all in this together' enough last year- well the same applies now.

Not much in this shitshow has been “fair”.

It’s nonsensical expecting fully vaccinated people to isolate as contacts. To do that in an attempt just to be “fair” to those not yet vaccinated is a pointless exercise.

We have friends in the US, unvaccinated and also living a pre pandemic life. Our life is unrecognisable to them. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Fuck all to do with whether you’re vaccinated according to them.

i believe there was working down the age groups in Florida & California. My 60yo relatives had to wait, were still waiting in very early April. Then uptake leveled off quickly in working age adults so from about late April vaccines became available to everyone they were licensed for. The USA is strictly keeping to 3-4 week gaps between jabs, unlike UK.

There is A LOT of hostility towards vaccine hesitant, maybe worse than in UK. Much less consensus, more polarised and closely linked to political affiliations.

@Topseyt

I would hope we would see the same, but we maybe won't as far too many people are really enjoyingthe misery fest of the pandemic.

If we don't get similar then you have to wonder what the point of the vaccine rollout is if not to allow proper opening up and ditching of bloody masks.

Yes. 100% this.

*Not much in this shitshow has been “fair”.

It’s nonsensical expecting fully vaccinated people to isolate as contacts. To do that in an attempt just to be “fair” to those not yet vaccinated is a pointless exercise.*

So continuing to make inequalities and unfairness worse is a good idea then @RedcurrantPuff? This seems to be an irrelevant argument anyway as hasn't Boris said that there will be no domestic vaccine passports. But I would have imagined that if the gov had indicated they were considering going down this route, compliance with rules/restrictions amongst the young and unvaccinated would have gone out the window immediately- which the government wouldn't want and I think they were aware of this.

I don’t think comparisons with the US are completely fair. They have a lot more control within their states so it varies quite a lot what is and isn’t allowed and the culture within those states.

I think, as a nation, we’re far to susceptible to ‘tall poppy syndrome’ with a weak willed government to even try and implement a system where the vaccinated/unvaccinated are treated differently. The side effect of that is complaints ‘what’s the point in vaccinations then?’.

As a nation we’re quite envious I think.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

We couldn't even do a catch up programme for the under 5s in the UK when the men B jab came out, hence me paying privately for my DC

Sorry to go off topic, but the Men B is included in childhood vaccinations, is it not?

I’m sure my DC had this at 8 & 16 weeks and then 1 year.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

How would it be fair here, in a country which has worked down the age groups to vaccinate, to allow freedoms for those who are fully vaccinated but not those who haven't even had the opportunity to have the vaccine? People in their 20s haven't even been called for their vaccines yet- why the hell should they continue to suffer restrictions when they've been low risk all along and these measures were never intended to protect them?

I say that as a fully vaccinated 33 yr old. I don't support opening up more for those who are vaccinated. We had to listen to that god awful phrase 'we're all in this together' enough last year- well the same applies now.

All of this. So unfair if we lock down for the vulnerable, young people suffer the most with jobs and social restrictions, then the older population get to reopen first.

Also on a practical level, right now a lot of unvaccinated people are only wearing masks on public transport etc due to social pressure, once over half the user's aren't masked, they won't do it either - and I can't really blame them.

[quote Dandylioness1]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

We couldn't even do a catch up programme for the under 5s in the UK when the men B jab came out, hence me paying privately for my DC

Sorry to go off topic, but the Men B is included in childhood vaccinations, is it not?

I’m sure my DC had this at 8 & 16 weeks and then 1 year.[/quote]
You are right but when they where first added it wasn’t given retrospectively. So my dd (I think) was one of the first to have it as part of her vaccination schedule in 2015/16 but a child born in 2014 wasn’t entitled to it on the NHS.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

*Not much in this shitshow has been “fair”.

It’s nonsensical expecting fully vaccinated people to isolate as contacts. To do that in an attempt just to be “fair” to those not yet vaccinated is a pointless exercise.*

So continuing to make inequalities and unfairness worse is a good idea then @RedcurrantPuff? This seems to be an irrelevant argument anyway as hasn't Boris said that there will be no domestic vaccine passports. But I would have imagined that if the gov had indicated they were considering going down this route, compliance with rules/restrictions amongst the young and unvaccinated would have gone out the window immediately- which the government wouldn't want and I think they were aware of this.

But what is “fair” about locking up healthy vaccinated people? Do you think that just because some people are still waiting for vaccines that makes that fair? I don’t.

@RedcurrantPuff well it wasn't 'fair' to 'lock up' who is even locked up any more? young healthy people last year when they were low risk, but that's what happened.

This is a completely moot point anyway as they've already said there will be no domestic Covid passports.

@Cornettoninja I think it was babies born from May 2015 that got the men b jab on the NHS schedule- my youngest DC was born Feb 2015 so missed by three months!

The CDC are still recommending masks outdoors for children. While some things may seem more sensible others are ludicrous.