Dh has been told to get back to the office

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

For a minimum of 2 days per week.
Is this an end to WFH?

Hybrid has always worked well for most people in the type of industry I work for pre covid. There will always be those that prefer the office 5 days a week and those that prefer WFH but most people sit somewhere in between.

I have in the past turned down jobs for having little or no flexibility on WFH because I find companies that trust their employees to manage their time and their teams time to be the best to work for.

It will take time for things to settle down. Covid was a big shake up for individuals and companies.

How dare people not work themselves senseless?

Who’s suggesting this? Plenty of people have found work/life balance much harder to manage while wfh, not easier.

Not being able to get hold of a team together for 90 min/2 hour period outside of lunch hours is not a 'petty' issue. And it's completely solved by a return to the office

This huge insurmountable issue seems to cause zero problems in real life. All employees need time away from meetings to actually, you know, do some work. Expecting everyone to be able to drop what they are doing with only 1 hours notice to attend a meeting isn’t sensible.

You don’t seem to trust your staff to make sensible decisions. If you have a weekly meeting that goes on all afternoon on a Monday. Then you make sure you don’t have to do the school run that day. It genuinely isn’t hard.

If someone asks can you be available on Thursday at 3.30pm. They have to understand the answer may be no for a wide range of reasons.
Mostly the no will be because of another work commitment for a different project. If it’s child related then the employee should try and sort out some childcare for that one day.
Honestly it sounds like you don’t trust your staff to be professionals.

You don’t seem to trust your staff to make sensible decisions.

Why are you assuming I have any staff?

Expecting everyone to be able to drop what they are doing with only 1 hours notice to attend a meeting isn’t sensible.

And where did I say this either?

But if everyone assumes they’re doing the school run on set days, because it’s only half an hour, then there will be days where afternoon meetings are a nightmare and no, that probably doesn’t work for management long term.

Keating, you don’t have staff but are here to bat for the managers. How odd you’d waste your time like this.

I don’t have any direct reports, no.

I’m not ‘batting for the managers‘. I see big issues with long term wfh for many businesses, for the business as a whole (which affects everyone) and for the individuals within it. Even the ones advocating for it right now. I don’t think it will help women in the longer term.

But if everyone assumes they’re doing the school run on set days, because it’s only half an hour, then there will be days where afternoon meetings are a nightmare and no, that probably doesn’t work for management long term

Ok, you’ve said you don’t have staff, I assume you don’t manage people either.

You seem to be finding problems where no problems actually arise. If you want staff to attend a meeting book them in in advance.

It is then down to the staff member to say they can’t attend for x reason. If it’s a childcare issue, that member of staff needs to put something else in place to sort their childcare out. You would only do the school run if you knew you had other options for school pick ups.

Employers should be able to trust their staff.

It’s not about trust. It’s about businesses functioning optimally.

@TheKeatingFive

It’s not about trust. It’s about businesses functioning optimally.

And lots of people have said one size does not fit all. Covid has been a major disruptor and some companies will have found positives in people WFH. It won't all have been negative.

It’s not about trust. It’s about businesses functioning optimally

I’m not being funny but you aren’t actually a manager. There is more to business than making sure your staff put in their 9 to 5 at exactly 9 to 5.

The world of work has changed and will still change.

Will London wages still be a thing for people who work for a London based company ...but arent actually required to be present most of the week?
Some people will have saved a fortune by not commuting but others would have chosen to live closer to London and spend more on a big mortgage/small property and less on a commute, so they wouldnt have made the same savings.

@Peppapeg

My kids after school club are reducing their staff. As so many people are staying at home to work come Sept.

I don't get this though, are they going to be doing 2 or so hours with primary school age children in the house, or is it that they finish at 3 and the wraparound was just used for commuting time?

I have friends who have decided to save cash on not sending the kids to after school club, and do both the school runs, then complain about having to work late to make up the time they haven’t done that day ‘I’m working 12 hour days’ - well, no, you’re not, you keep interrupting your work to look after kids. Plenty are just doing it to save cash, it’s not the best thing for their employers.

I’m not being funny but you aren’t actually a manager. There is more to business than making sure your staff put in their 9 to 5 at exactly 9 to 5.

I have never mentioned 9-5. I’m talking about returning to office environments.

Of course work is constantly changing. The average MNer with a commute they hate and a great wfh set up is making they assumption that what they see as positive change is also the case for all employees and the business as a whole. In most cases, I disagree.

Speaking for my team we’ve worked well from home because we’ve had to.

Much of our work is the provision of nuanced advice in a meeting setting. It took a bit of time to get used to the different dynamics of video conferencing but it works, when everyone is at home.

But not everyone wants to be at home. The younger (male and female) team members are keen to be back in the office as are the senior women. I think this is fairly typical.

About 70% will return which will leave the 30% at a disadvantage. If the majority are sat round the conference table and someone is dialled in via video conference it will be challenging for them to be successful.

I see it as career limiting in the long medium term and it’s sad that women with young children will be the main losers.

Well SAGE are now this morning urging BoJo to push back on June 21st because of the increase in cases, I however believe he was never going to open up hence the appointment of thousands of Covid Marshalls , his quick fix wedding etc etc. I guarantee we will get more and more scare news story's, and be back in lockdown after the G7 meeting and Euro's.

About 70% will return which will leave the 30% at a disadvantage. If the majority are sat round the conference table and someone is dialled in via video conference it will be challenging for them to be successful.

I see it as career limiting in the long medium term and it’s sad that women with young children will be the main losers.

I totally agree with this

@AyyMacarena

We also didn't get the lateral flow tests we have to complete until the 17th as I'm sure they didn't want anyone to know we had formally returned until it was "reasonable". They kept saying they were struggling to get them.

Do you work for Capita by any chance?

About 70% will return which will leave the 30% at a disadvantage. If the majority are sat round the conference table and someone is dialled in via video conference it will be challenging for them to be successful

I don’t have WFH as an option (which I’m fine with). But when we have meetings we all dial in. Saves finding a meeting room.

I see it as career limiting in the long medium term and it’s sad that women with young children will be the main losers

But what if it keeps women in a career they would otherwise quit because it doesn’t allow any flexibility. Yes they lose out on promotions whilst the kids are young. But they can up their hours later.

Plus this very thread is about a Dh going back. If more husbands choose a hybrid WFH model, maybe they will take up more of the childcare at home. This would be extremely helpful to mothers.

It strikes me as ironic that some people are still claiming they’re ‘not comfortable’ to go back to the office when the very same people are quick comfortable meeting friends and family in their own homes, going to soft play, on holiday, blah blah blah.

My preference is for a blended approach but the people claiming childcare issues...what did they do pre covid? Also I agree it’s just not possible to work with small children at home. Not a criticism of the acute covid phase lockdown / homeschooling etc where everyone had to muddle through.

Now the acute emergency phase is over we need to by and large get back to normal, with a little more flex - perhaps 2 days wfh and 3 in the office or vice versa. I would not hire someone to my team who wanted to wfh every day.

The difficulties arise when you are trying to accommodate everyone’s preferences and remain fair - employee 1 has to leave to do the school run at 2.30 & is back at 3.15, employee 2 needs to leave at 3.00 and and back at 3.45, employee 3 wants to work different hours to fit in with their schedule, Employee 1 has a 5 year old that quietly watches tv, employee 2 has a 7&9 year old who constantly fight, interrupt meetings etc, it’s not just as straight forward as saying if there’s a meeting arrange somebody else to pick up the kids - so as a manager I should tell the staff member with a support network they can pick their kids up but the staff member with none they can’t? It becomes far too complicated and going back to the office becomes the easier option.

The difficulties arise when you are trying to accommodate everyone’s preferences and remain fair

If your employees are doing their job properly. Achieving their targets / workload. Then they are fine. If they aren’t doing their job properly that needs managing. Imposing blanket conditions on your staff because you can’t manage them properly is not on.

so as a manager I should tell the staff member with a support network they can pick their kids up but the staff member with none they can’t

If an employee doesn’t have a support network (or a backup plan) they shouldn’t arrange to pick the kids up when they are needed in work.

Imposing blanket conditions on your staff because you can’t manage them properly is not on.

People are entitled to manage whatever way they like according to the conditions of their contract.

People are entitled to manage whatever way they like according to the conditions of their contract

And staff are entitle to resign and work somewhere where they are treated like a professional adult.

Imposing blanket conditions on your staff because you can’t manage them properly is not on.

Naturally. I expect that’s a risk management are willing to take.