Dh has been told to get back to the office

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

For a minimum of 2 days per week.
Is this an end to WFH?

I don’t think it’s presenteeism at all. Personal face to face contact is very important for how most companies operate.

Maybe the managers need to get better at managing?

They won’t need to I don’t think.

The rowing back has already started. It’ll reach critical mass soon.

@LadyWithLapdog

Presenteism is a poor way of managing work, isn’t it? If people are taking the piss there are bigger problems for the company and just breathing down the neck and micro-managing is a poor use of more expensive staff/resources.

There are other benefits to having teams physically in an office together though.

My kids after school club are reducing their staff. As so many people are staying at home to work come Sept.

I don't get this though, are they going to be doing 2 or so hours with primary school age children in the house, or is it that they finish at 3 and the wraparound was just used for commuting time?

Personal face to face contact is very important for how most companies operate

I’ve already said there will be a few industries (very creative ones?) where this will work less. Even they could probably do a 1 day at home model.
WFH does work for numerous roles though. It did pandemic, it seemed to work fairly well for a lot of companies during the pandemic. I think it will persist post pandemic.

Companies that don’t embrace it may find it hard to recruit and retain decent staff.

It is a bit worrying if after school clubs are expecting fewer children as it shows some parents think it is acceptable to do the school run and care for children in work time. Some will be working agreed shorter/adjusted hours and will be doing it in their own time but others will just be assuming they can change their own working hours or do both things at once and the more people who do this the less likely it is that workplaces will continue wfh.

I don't get this though, are they going to be doing 2 or so hours with primary school age children in the house, or is it that they finish at 3 and the wraparound was just used for commuting time

My husband does this two days a week (kids are 10 & 7, so not too demanding).
Picks them up at 3.30pm, gives them a quick snack. They pretty much look after themselves till I get home at 4.30pm ish. Obviously this wouldn’t work with toddlers.

He either works through lunch or adds an extra 30 minutes to his working day.

WFH does work for numerous roles though.

I think people are only thinking in terms of their own little silo, not in terms of how the business as a whole functions.

Also a lot of people are still in ‘pandemic’ mindset, whereas in the next few years expectations will be a lot higher and businesses will be building for success in the longer term. All guns needs to be blazing.

and the more people who do this the less likely it is that workplaces will continue wfh.

Exactly.

Ultimately people are their own worst enemies in this regard.

@WhenSheWasBad

I don't get this though, are they going to be doing 2 or so hours with primary school age children in the house, or is it that they finish at 3 and the wraparound was just used for commuting time

My husband does this two days a week (kids are 10 & 7, so not too demanding).
Picks them up at 3.30pm, gives them a quick snack. They pretty much look after themselves till I get home at 4.30pm ish. Obviously this wouldn’t work with toddlers.

He either works through lunch or adds an extra 30 minutes to his working day.

Which is presumably fine for some who have flexibility, but many won't, and its not always acceptable to arrange stuff around someone in the team being away from their desk for the school run. I'd be surprised if that many companies were content with this in the long term beyond covid.

I'm wfh and our office is being refurbished with an expected return around July. I did go in a few times around September when lockdown was lifted a bit. I reckon in reality though they will say August or September but I think we'll definitely be back in full time before the end of the year.

@TheKeatingFive

and the more people who do this the less likely it is that workplaces will continue wfh.

Exactly.

Ultimately people are their own worst enemies in this regard.

So a person spends 30 minutes picking their kids up. They make this time up either in their lunch or after normal clocking off hours.

They are ahead of schedule on their projects. Why are the company going to be upset with that employee. Obviously some will take the piss. So you monitor their performance and deal with their ineffectiveness.

Companies that don’t let decent staff balance their home & work lives may find they lose those staff to more progressive companies.

Obviously not all work can be done from home. But if your role can be done from home, you should get a hybrid option

Which is presumably fine for some who have flexibility, but many won't, and its not always acceptable to arrange stuff around someone in the team being away from their desk for the school run. I'd be surprised if that many companies were content with this in the long term beyond covid

Not really that hard to block out 3.15 to 3.45 twice a week. Staff aren’t always available anyway, because they are on other teams calls for other projects. Or they might have nipped to the loo and made a coffee for 10 minutes. It’s not a big deal the person just calls you back when they are free.

I’ve already said some jobs don’t lend themselves to WFH. But why make someone commute in 5 days a week when they don’t have to?

My husband, daughter and daughters partner all have office based jobs in different industries. None are going back to the offices for months, if ever. They've all been working well and efficiently. No real reason to return.

The ONS have been largely working from home since just before the first lockdown. They have managed to organise a census and testing and statistics during a pandemic. People can and do work well without having to present themselves at an office.

@Roselilly36

These threads are really starting to get on my nerves to be honest, employers were right to switch to WFH as gov advised, now as things are moving on of course people should return to the office as their contract of employment states.

How will things get back to normal otherwise?

So many people have made decisions, without considering returning to their places of work, since wfh. Getting a dog, moving further away from their place of work etc and are now panicking about the extended commute, who will look after the dog, kids etc.

Blaming their employer for wanting them to return to the office, lack of notice etc, unreal, it’s your place of work.

I think this shows a lack of creative thinking and rigidity. Things change and a move to much more working from home is probably one of those things. No reason to do things the old way just because its always been done that way.

My husband and his team at work have definitely improved productivity since wfh. His job seems to largely involve meetings where projects are discussed and decisions made. Pre covid they had to book meeting rooms in the office and wait for availability. Now they just book in a MS teams meeting and away they go. Everything is getting done more quickly and more efficiently. They've had praise from senior management. That's why no on in their office is going back any time soon.

Not really that hard to block out 3.15 to 3.45 twice a week. Staff aren’t always available anyway, because they are on other teams calls for other projects

Like many other things, sounds perfectly reasonable when one person does it. However, if you've numerous members of staff heading off on the school run - and suddenly you're struggling to get a time that suits for a meeting between say 2.30 and 4.00 on a regular basis. Naturally, it occurs to you that if everyone was back in the office, this wouldn't be an issue.

@knittingaddict

My husband and his team at work have definitely improved productivity since wfh. His job seems to largely involve meetings where projects are discussed and decisions made. Pre covid they had to book meeting rooms in the office and wait for availability. Now they just book in a MS teams meeting and away they go. Everything is getting done more quickly and more efficiently. They've had praise from senior management. That's why no on in their office is going back any time soon.

Have they? Because in my experience of work where lots of meetings are felt to be necessary, the number of meeting rooms acting as a constraint meant that there was working time. It’s now constant meetings and no one gets work done...

Then don’t be petty and just change the timing. It’s not that hard.

Sorry, my reply was to Keating :)

The ONS have been largely working from home since just before the first lockdown. They have managed to organise a census and testing and statistics during a pandemic. People can and do work well without having to present themselves at an office.

Well of course people have delivered large projects.

Trust me, we'd have all been back months ago if this hadn't happened.

But the issue is less about the immediate project work and more about building the business for the future. These are the things that wfh often doesn't deliver on well. It's things like on the job training for junior recruits. The innovation pipeline, products/processes/ approaches. Getting employees to feed into and get behind what the longer term strategy should be. Building the client base.

The 'well we delivered the project so what's the issue' mentality is pretty short sighted.

Then don’t be petty and just change the timing.

Not being able to get hold of a team together for 90 min/2 hour period outside of lunch hours is not a 'petty' issue. And it's completely solved by a return to the office.

It doesn't seem to be registering with people that this needs to work for management. It'll be back full time in a heartbeat if it doesn't.

Well your experience isn't ours mines apintoftea. People work in different industries, have better or worse managers and different demands placed on their employees. Not hard to imagine that our experiences differ.

Keating, sorry but all I see IS pettiness. How dare people not work themselves senseless? Did you see that report that people put in an average of 9 hours a week unpaid work? This has increased during the last year. So it’s bullshit and pettiness. Be creative and work with your staff or they’ll go elsewhere for better T&Cs which, surprise, it’s not just about the money.