If (big if) the virus is manmade

[Itsnotyourchoiceanymore]

Then will it keep mutating no matter what as possibly that’s what the program is meant to do?
I’m avoiding naming countries or finger pointing as that’s not the purpose of my question

I’ve always thought it was a massive coincidence that there was a big virology centre/lab in Wuhan.

Could I please very gently remind that my question was not to target a specific country or it’s people. I’m only trying to find out if this is man made (again big if) or modified in some way would this carry on longer even inspire of all the current measures..

I don't want to be critical but it just isn't a great bio-weapon is it?

It's incubation period is good, gives decent length to achieve a decent infection rate, but the fatality rates is too low. I know a lot of people have died, but if it's supposes to be made as a weapon it's not that high. Also if you were creating a virus as a bio weapon would there have been a vaccine already to protect yourself (obviously you wouldn't mass produce it)

Or do people think it's a pharmaceutical company that created it?

@yeOldeTrout

oh come off it, we all know some 'truths' are more interesting than others. Nobody on MN or hardly anywhere cared about genomic sequencing of coronavirdae before 2020. That was long time a huge interesting truth for only a small niche group of people, not one on newspaper front pages. There is always a reason behind 'truth' seeking & the reason why is what makes it seem important.

Marmalade virus is an idea I like & find intriguing :)

The Marmalade virus outbreak is suspected to have began in Peru and crossed over from bears to humans in the UK, probably in West London somewhere around the Paddington area

@ContinuousMonotoneBeep

I don't want to be critical but it just isn't a great bio-weapon is it?

It's incubation period is good, gives decent length to achieve a decent infection rate, but the fatality rates is too low. I know a lot of people have died, but if it's supposes to be made as a weapon it's not that high. Also if you were creating a virus as a bio weapon would there have been a vaccine already to protect yourself (obviously you wouldn't mass produce it)

Or do people think it's a pharmaceutical company that created it?

It's very effective at crippling economies and healthcare systems though - I don't personally think it was released deliberately but it would make a pretty powerful bioweapon if the goal was to destabilise other countries

Its possible that the natural virus escaped - its happened in Canada (or was it USA?) with SARS &in the UK with Smallpox (50s/60s? - I think a woman who was working in Portland Down died)
Over time someone might contract the disease within the laboratory, get ill but actually I don't think the time line works that well - from other things I have read the disease may well have started before October which connects with an International Services Sport Competition in Wuhan -
Who knows (& they are not sure - pun!)

If it was man-made virus designed to infect humans it was pretty shit at it.

Nature has improved on it dramatically at least twice.

The Kent was much better at infecting humans, and the Indian variant is better still.

If it was manmade then it was made a long time ago, 60's 70's 80s maybe, as the covid 19 virus Sars cov 2 is a direct cousin in evolutionary terms of Sars cov1 (SARS), mers (middle East respiratory syndrome) etc all much earlier outbreaks (and much more severe in terms of mortality, not transmission). That lab in Wuhan and the one in Canada were researching SARS and ebola so I'm quite prepared to believe they were using strains of the Sars virus or whatever and it got out, but covid 19 itself can't have been directly manmade, maybe man handled.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I do find the accidental lab leak theory plausible.

OK - this is ridiculous.

Let's just start by saying that the world's experts are in complete agreement that the virus is natural.

Now the current discussion is whether or not the epidemic began with an escape from a laboratory of the virus where it was being studied - this then becomes careless science rather than biological warfare. Let's consider what this argument is based on.

1. Initially absolutely NOTHING at all aside from the close (several hundred miles) proximity of the lab to the wet markets and an absolute need to deflect blame for managing the virus away from Trump's idiocy, and onto a foreign state.

2. Now it's come to light that 3? members of the lab were admitted to hospital in 2019......

Right, smoking gun or what?? Not! Lol

Coming back to reality, we've had two similar viruses emerge recently, that we dealt with - with MERS it was easy as it wasn't H2H transmittable, and with SARS, the much shorter incubation period and more severe symptoms meant it was far easier to contain. Given the state of the modern world, it's inevitable there'll be more.

SARS-COV-2 didn't come out of nowhere - we had ample warning which we ignored. Now we're fishing around for someone else to blame.

Side note - we've taken exactly the same stance with global warming. Human beings are just terrible at looking after their planet. This has consequences.

@PrincessNutNuts

If it was man-made virus designed to infect humans it was pretty shit at it.

Nature has improved on it dramatically at least twice.

The Kent was much better at infecting humans, and the Indian variant is better still.

At least three times of significance.

The FIRST emergence in Wuhan was believed not to be H2H transmittable at all because they monitored 92 household members of infected people, and NONE contracted the virus.

It then mutated into the form that swept the world (loosely speaking - there were multiple similar variants).

Then as you say Kent followed by Indian variants.

The smallpox leak was 78 and makes for fascinating reading. Truly tragic. The head of the microbiology department killed himself. The photographer died, her mother was infected, her father had a heart attack. The university eventually successfully defended themselves against a leak through the air vents. In the article the idea the photographer sold camera film face-to-face as a theory as opposed to airborne transmission.
www.theguardian.com/science/2020/nov/21/it-was-a-total-invasion-the-virus-that-came-back-from-the-dead
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_smallpox_outbreak_in_the_United_Kingdom
Dr. Bakshi deserved a medal.

Pretty sure we'd be able to manufacture our own plastic tat if there were any export/import restrictions or bans. If we wanted even more plastic tat that is!

Loads of other countries manufacture the tech products, with South Korea making some of the best TVs.

Clothing sweat shops are abhorrent with millions employed in awful conditions for a pittance, just to fulfil 'our' desire for fast fashion.

However, the human consequences of a lack of import/export of these items would lead to a HUGE rise in unemployment there which would have devastating consequences for the population and would be a humanitarian crisis. Although wages and working conditions are appalling, it does mean (some) people aren't homeless and starving.

A government with a track record for not looking after its population at the best of times.... well, it doesn't bear thinking about how they'd handle it.

Bakhshi

[quote somgreatapollo]@speckledostrichegg
Why are you trying to silence debate about the genocide of the Uyghur Muslims which the UN, EU and HRW have all acknowledged? Are you saying this genocide never happened? If so I would say that is gaslighting on a grand scale.
I am not using any kind of language I am stating fact.
I would also suggest that attempts to silence this issue as you appear to be doing are Islamaphobic. The Uyghur Muslims are a peaceful people, they need our support - not to have the atrocities which have happened to them silenced and airbrushed from history.[/quote]
I have no idea how you have taken my comment

can we be careful with this kind of language

anti-Asian hate crimes were already increasing in the UK and goodness knows how the latest theorising and speculations are going to impact on this

to mean I'm trying to "silence the issue?" Where did I deny a genocide?

I'm just saying that referring to previous events and speculating on increasingly wild theories about the origins of the virus whilst referring to "the Chinese" as a homogenous group of people, is not a good path to go down

@Watermelon222

I’ve always thought it was a massive coincidence that there was a big virology centre/lab in Wuhan.

Yup - it's really odd that there's a big science institute in one of China's biggest cities.

Just like the Kent variant emerging in close proximity to one of the UK's BSL-4 labs can't be a coincidence either.

@Itsnotyourchoiceanymore If it has been engineered to generate initial strain, it doesn’t make a difference to how the virus will then respond to environmental selective pressures once circulating out in the world. That will follow a natural course.

Initially absolutely NOTHING at all aside from the close (several hundred miles) proximity of the lab

Firstly, emerging so close to a lab is in itself suspicious, wouldn’t you think?

Secondly, there’s never been any convincing narrative about how it passed from bats to humans - the intermediary species has never been conclusively established.

So the other story doesn’t stack up either.

I’m not convinced either way, in all probability we’ll never know, but even the Biden administration is admitting this may have been what happened.

@somgreatapollo

I will reference as many previous events as I like if they actually happened *@speckledostrichegg* As I said, it's islamaphobic to try silence debate on the Uyghur Muslim genocide which u appear to be doing. I'd suggest a period of self reflection 👌

You to have not read my reply so I'll repost it for ease

I have no idea how you have taken my comment

can we be careful with this kind of language

anti-Asian hate crimes were already increasing in the UK and goodness knows how the latest theorising and speculations are going to impact on this

to mean I'm trying to "silence the issue?" Where did I deny a genocide?

I'm just saying that referring to previous events and speculating on increasingly wild theories about the origins of the virus whilst referring to "the Chinese" as a homogenous group of people, is not a good path to go down

Viruses are worked on all the time, but usually under strict conditions {and under containment, depending on potential risk}, mostly to gain really important information as to how they work and how they can be dealt with.

As for vilifying the Chinese
Might be good to clarify that you actually mean “vilifying the Chinese government” not “vilifying the Chinese in general, including anyone who looks vaguely East Asian.”
For the sake of everyone’s blood pressure.

[quote Itsnotyourchoiceanymore]@Arbadacarba I get that but I was wondering if it’s manmade then doesn’t that mean it’s been tampered with? Therefore would that mean that the ‘setting’ is to create maximum damage, which might be different if it’s organic[/quote]
I'm certainly no expert, here's my quess, if it was natural then could it have been modified then 're released, then yes technically, it's not made made but then instead it's modified ? Also how could it of spread as easily as it did ? Another theory is it could of been used by one group, then another group following.the first groups research and repurposeds it ?

I’m not convinced either way, in all probability we’ll never know, but even the Biden administration is admitting this may have been what happened.

Agree.

goodness knows how the latest theorising and speculations are going to impact on this

Is theorising & speculation re a lab leak ok to discuss?