Cummings evidence today

[Dirtystreetpie]

Anyone listening?

But I don’t think the U.K. was alone in that. I agree we ought to have been looking at what the countries who’ve had experience with dealing with SARS were doing and asking why.

But I think we believed that we were a liberal western country and wouldn't follow orders like the populations of asian countries. Won't make that mistake again.

@SophieB100

Cummings always looks after number one.

He didn't rubbish Rishi - because one day Rishi will be PM and he wants to work for him.

He's gunning for Hancock - many of us predicted months ago that he would be the fall guy.

Boris doesn't care if Hancock goes.

Perfect.

Totally. I’ve always been suspicious that Boris she’s only kept Hancock on this long so when the shit hits the fan with an enquiry he has someone to blame/pin it on and sack to appease the media and public.

I have very little time for someone who thinks the public are so STUPID they will believe he drove to a tourist attraction to "test his eyesight".

Absolutely. Some of the excuses they’ve given in court this week for why they were using unknown companies with no experience in PPE rather than existing providers are bizarre. Hospital trusts, local providers and local public health aren’t to blame here. They’ve largely been doing an excellent job in really difficult circumstances. Virtually everything that’s gone tits up seems to have come out of central government.

@Drawcilla

Worth noting Italy snd many countries don’t discount deaths after 28 days. Our true figure is far higher.

I believe it's far lower. So many deaths counted where people died with covid, not of covid.

This is all still blowing my mind. I really dislike all of them.

I am really wondering what plan DC has, and what is going to happen next. I can't imagine he will be slithering back under a rock, I think he sees himself as a puppet master

I wish Labour would get their act together, what we need now is a strong opposition

"I believe it's far lower. So many deaths counted where people died with covid, not of covid."

I have heard there are those that think the death rate is far lower. And I too think it is far higher.
It's a myth. If someone died in a car accident, but also at the time tested positive for covid, the cause of death would not be covid. This myth is a way of underplaying how many have died.

Taken from .gov site...
'Even if in an unusual case a death certificate mentioned both COVID-19 and a traffic accident (or other external causes), the World Health Organisation (WHO) rules for coding deaths mean that the traffic accident would be identified as the underlying cause of death in our data'

There's far more on it but that's the bottom line. And it hacks me off that there are people out there saying... the figures are half what is shown. No they are not.

Sorry.... I meant to highlight the post I was referring to...

I believe it's far lower. So many deaths counted where people died with covid, not of covid

Then my blurb...

No, it’s higher. 60 days / covid as primary cause of death on death certificate / excess deaths all higher than the 28 day figure. There is no rational reason at all to be thinking the U.K. has been overcounting it’s deaths, plenty to think they’ve been undercounting them.

The U.K. death figures for 2020 compared to previous years make absolutely no sense at all if your assuming many of those people didn’t die of Covid.

The U.K. death figures for 2020 compared to previous years make absolutely no sense at all if your assuming many of those people didn’t die of Covid

Exactly. And let's not underplay the death figures as a way of shoring up support for Johnson and his lot.
They fucked up.

@sadperson16

Why in Gods name is Abbott trotted out again? And the evil Communist that is Corbyn.

Neither of them particularly float my boat....but how on earth could they have been much worse? really?

They would have been much, much worse - sucking up to their Russian friends, we would have had the useless Sputnik vaccine thrust upon us. No doubt they would also have ensured that union people and all the 'workers' were vaccinated before the elderly and vulnerable! You have to admit we got the order of people to be vaccinated right!

They would have been much, much worse - sucking up to their Russian friends, we would have had the useless Sputnik vaccine thrust upon us. No doubt they would also have ensured that union people and all the 'workers' were vaccinated before the elderly and vulnerable! You have to admit we got the order of people to be vaccinated right!

Jesus wept, is your tin foil hat on too tight? Read out loud what you’ve written and listen to yourself.

You do realise that Boris and Cummings are the biggest Russian cock suckers in government.

Honestly, some people are so blinded by their hate and ignorance. It’s true what they say about right wingers lacking intelligence

They would have been much, much worse - sucking up to their Russian friends, we would have had the useless Sputnik vaccine thrust upon us. No doubt they would also have ensured that union people and all the 'workers' were vaccinated before the elderly and vulnerable! You have to admit we got the order of people to be vaccinated right!

Of course that is exactly what JC would have done, there is no doubt about it. Its all JC's fault and nothing to do with those who keep failing to make decisions.
Or maybe rather than spaffing money on lining their mates bank accounts they might have introduced a system to pay people to self-isolate when they were required to.

He is such a lying snake who believes that the rules which the rest of us live by don't apply to him. He's proved himself a liar time and again and yet here we are lapping up the next instalment.
I don't believe a word he says.

Arguing the toss over death rates isn't the main point.

I was looking through photos trying to remember what we were doing on the dates DC mentioned and I'd screen shotted a post by a friend who works in a hospital.

By the 12th March they'd quadrupled the wards for Covid patients, with one set aside just for those dying. And it's still wasn't enough. She was desperate.

What ever you think of DC the whole point of anything was always to help the NHS cope and not be completely overwhelmed. And the government were pretty dam useless. We knew at the time. And now we know why.

I would like to hear more form Helen Macnamara actually. She seems to have been the one for whom the penny dropped first.

@Iggly

They would have been much, much worse - sucking up to their Russian friends, we would have had the useless Sputnik vaccine thrust upon us. No doubt they would also have ensured that union people and all the 'workers' were vaccinated before the elderly and vulnerable! You have to admit we got the order of people to be vaccinated right!

Jesus wept, is your tin foil hat on too tight? Read out loud what you’ve written and listen to yourself.

You do realise that Boris and Cummings are the biggest Russian cock suckers in government.

Honestly, some people are so blinded by their hate and ignorance. It’s true what they say about right wingers lacking intelligence

What utterly baffles me is how anyone can think that Boris and his mates who are only interested in the richest 0.01% of the population and being in power are better for the interests of the average person than someone who is interested in the workers.

@ODFOx

He is such a lying snake who believes that the rules which the rest of us live by don't apply to him. He's proved himself a liar time and again and yet here we are lapping up the next instalment. I don't believe a word he says.

I do actually. He’s telling the truth but in a way to make him look better - because he wants to shaft Boris and the government. He’s admitted that he likes chaos, he wants things to change dramatically and what better way to get into government, and then throw every one (except Rishi, ffs) under the bus.

He doesn’t really care - because he is not a politician and people would do well to remember that.

What utterly baffles me is how anyone can think that Boris and his mates who are only interested in the richest 0.01% of the population and being in power are better for the interests of the average person than someone who is interested in the workers

I completely agree.

I think people who criticise union and the idea of supporting “workers” must hold illogical arguments in their head and the strain of it makes them so angry that they spew nonsense.

Who are “workers” but ordinary people with jobs? Teachers, nurses, bus drivers, delivery drivers.... all people who keep the country going.

Yet people just hanker after the likes of Boris who’s an absolute nasty piece of work. But hey! He’s got that ruffian cheeky look about him and can speak a bit of Latin.

Honestly.

I don't believe a word he says

Even the stuff we know to be true?
Like the care homes not having a shielded ring or whatever pathetic term Hancock used?
We suspected/knew. We wanted it verified and he did.

That sounds very blinkered to say that.

Remember this guy is a historian.

He will know exactly what facts and info can be corroborated.

It's also possible he's making sure history is recorded ASAP; he knows he can put a spin or slant on it. At the same time, much of what he said is already known.

And he's right about the way the U.K. government is structured in a situation like this.

He’s a skilled comms person first and foremost and knows the power of a story told in a certain way

He had his moment to have a go at former employers

Some of it actually showed up new insight re SAGE / winter peak issue which was a better version of late lockdown issue

Sept firebreak wasn’t a great answer in any case looking at countries who did it. Short doesn’t do much. Also R was under 1 in Autumn until new variant

MH will have to answer care home thing

Overall he’s a story teller

MH on right now responding well.

There’s a lot of Russian money floating about in places. You’re a bit naive if you think it’s a just JC and the left who’s mates with the Russians.

If yesterday was the stuff that DC can say without implicating himself too badly, is anyone else womdering what the hell he hasn’t said?

Oh not MH on radio the one who sounds like him

The relatives and friends of the ones that died at Hillsborough never ever gave up on them.
Mrs Thatcher wanted it brushed under the carpet , but in 32 years it never went away.
I haven't any personal links to that tragedy, but those men and women have always impressed me with how they stood up against the government, the police , the press and the lies that covered up the truth of how they were so badly let down and how the blame was always pinned on the ones that died , when it so clearly wasn't their fault.
I hope that people will never forget the thousands that died from covid because of failings from the top, things were known and acknowledged long before Dominic Cummings decided to speak out yesterday , but as others have discovered it can sometimes take decades before you see any kind of justice.
The big problem is people do not believe him or will shrug a lot of it away especially as so many that died were elderly or poorly to start with.
I know you can't really compare Hillsborough to this, but I'm just making the comparison as to how hard people do have to fight for the truth when it's the government and the establishment they are up against.

@Roussette

I don't believe a word he says

Even the stuff we know to be true?
Like the care homes not having a shielded ring or whatever pathetic term Hancock used?
We suspected/knew. We wanted it verified and he did.

That sounds very blinkered to say that.

There's a gulf though between x actually happening and why it happened. In this case, yes the decisions around care homes were criminal, but whether the narrative that matt hancock is solely to blame is another question. I don't doubt he played a pivotal role in the fuck up, but I can't comprehend he was given data and info otherwise, and went against it and no one questioned him and hospitals blindly followed what he said.