Is there another lockdown now or not?

[Overthebow]

BBC is showing new guidance for Bolton, Blackburn, Kirklees, Bedford, Burnley, Leicester, Hounslow and North Tyneside.

Is this supposed to be another lockdown? I’m confused.

If people have had the money to afford these trips, then they are hardly in poverty.

The majority of people with the variant have not travelled to India. If one person with the variant attends a workplace they might then transmit it to ten people, them to another ten and so on. Is that so difficult to understand?

If people have had the money to afford these trips, then they are hardly in poverty. And if they are sufficiently able and affluent to fly around the world, then surely they would have been able to get vaccinated, when offered, even if it was 50 miles away.
Why are posters defending the indefensible?*

Most of the people won’t have been to India, it takes one or two people to bring it back and spread it via their work, their dc at school, going to the supermarket. Do you really not understand that? Are you also aware that many people haven’t had the opportunity to have their vaccine yet because they aren’t eligible.

Do I think people should have travelled, of course I don’t but you can’t blame a whole community because a few did travel and you absolute cannot say that poverty has nothing to do with it.

[quote Horizons83]@sotiredofthislonelylife

Why are you saying that people have travelled from India untested? You cannot be let into the country unless you have a negative Covid test result with you.

Now, I am sure that some people did travel with a negative test and subsequently later tested positive, and I am sure some of them did not self-isolated as they were legally required to do. Also the mixing of passengers at airports is ludicrous.

But it's not correct to say that arrivals into the UK were untested.[/quote]
We must agree to differ then.
What would be the point of having a test if it can’t be relied on?
I know of people who, although they had been tested, were not asked to show the results on arrival.

@BarbaraofSeville
Trawling through google results for a reliable source, takes far longer than asking for someone to kindly share a link they may already have but thanks for the comment

[quote everythingthelighttouches]Littlefluffyclouds13

www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-coronavirus-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do#if-youre-in-an-area-where-the-new-covid-19-variant-is-spreading[/quote]
Thank you!

@Thesearmsofmine

* If people have had the money to afford these trips, then they are hardly in poverty. And if they are sufficiently able and affluent to fly around the world, then surely they would have been able to get vaccinated, when offered, even if it was 50 miles away. Why are posters defending the indefensible?*

Most of the people won’t have been to India, it takes one or two people to bring it back and spread it via their work, their dc at school, going to the supermarket. Do you really not understand that? Are you also aware that many people haven’t had the opportunity to have their vaccine yet because they aren’t eligible.

Do I think people should have travelled, of course I don’t but you can’t blame a whole community because a few did travel and you absolute cannot say that poverty has nothing to do with it.

Where did I say I blamed the whole community? Of course I understand about transmission - don’t be ridiculous - but if you think it was just ‘one or two people’ returning from India, give your head a wobble. Plane loads returned in the space of a few days to avoid paying for quarantine. They all took a chance and now we have this current situation.

Presuming the guidance, rather than law, means that families living in thes areas will not be able to claim for cancelled bookings where people had made plans for half term next week, I'm guessing people are free to ignore this "guidance" and crack on with their booked holidays next week. The government have been told before that giving guidance is ineffective because people affected by it can't get refunds etc. off the back of guidance, only law. It's very frustrating.

@FreekStar

But why should we all be lockdown again? There will never be an eradication of this virus, just as there isn't for ordinary flu. The vaccines are effective against it and those that are vulnerable have all had their vaccines so any that haven't are either young and fit or it's their choice to take the risk of not having it. The NHS is nowhere near to being overwhelmed by the numbers of cases, so what is the point?

How many times do people have to say that's not true? - "those that are vulnerable have all had their vaccines"

Something doesn't become true just because you keep saying it. On this very thread someone mentions being in Group 6 and unable to book a vaccination appointment.

@PineappleWilson

Presuming the guidance, rather than law, means that families living in thes areas will not be able to claim for cancelled bookings where people had made plans for half term next week, I'm guessing people are free to ignore this "guidance" and crack on with their booked holidays next week. The government have been told before that giving guidance is ineffective because people affected by it can't get refunds etc. off the back of guidance, only law. It's very frustrating.

Surely anyone booking a holiday at this time has taken out appropriate cancellation insurance?

It is on BBC now.

@Moondust001

Just want to remind everyone that vaccine take up in Bolton is in line with national average take-up. Don't fall for lies. The variant is escaping the vaccine to some extent, that is more of an issue than their take up rate. *@picturesandpickles*

Could you please post a credible link to this claim you have made. Because the science says that the variant does not "escape the vaccine". If you have some sort of proof that the scientists who developed the vaccines, and Public Health England are lying to us about this, could you explain where we can all find this evidence.

Can people please remember that not all the conspiracy theorists are anti-vaxxers? Simply because something is posted does not make it true.

The vaccines are slightly less effective against the India variant. Eg with Pfizer, after 2 doses, with the original virus it's efficacy was around 95% but with the India variant it is around 80% effective so more people, even double vaccinated will catch Covid. One dose of the vaccine is much less effective against the India variant than it was for the original virus so those with single doses are still quite vulnerable. We don't really know about hospitalisations and deaths yet but it is quite possible that even with our rate of vaccination, if all restrictions are lifted, we could get as big a wave as we had in January.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/24/will-the-india-variant-stop-england-ending-lockdown
I didn't remember the percentages exactly but this article is a good explainer.

It's chaotic. The Scottish gov site published this info on 21st May (taking effect on 24th May) and their newspapers covered these new English travel restrictions. So people in Scotland knew ahead of time. The English gov site also published this on 21st May but there was no formal announcements by ministers or the media.

Some UK experts believe we've already lost control of the new variant and we will see a big surge amongst the younger age groups. Our govt is not acting quickly enough, there aren't enough mitigation measures in schools and they're too focused on opening up.

This is all just advice, not law. People can make a choice which is what we need in a free society, particularly with so many already vaccinated. We have had enough of destruction of our rights and freedoms since March 2020.

Surely anyone booking a holiday at this time has taken out appropriate cancellation insurance?

Cancellation insurance often doesn’t cover “deciding not to go because of half arsed guidance” as I found out last year - we could have gone but it didn’t seem sensible, and it was booked in 2019 so I wasn’t even chancing it. We lost a grand.

This is why people WILL go unless the government outlaws it.

twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1396615878062510083?s=19
This thread gives some pretty decent modelling of how there might or might not be another large wave dependent on different variables and how many restrictions stay in place.
It is fairly "middle of the road modeling" I think, others have more extreme predictions one way or another.

My parents live in a tiny village on the Pennines, technically Kirklees, with 0-3 cases. If Boris thinks I'm cancelling my trip up there in June, involving 4 of us who will have had 2 doses, he can piss off.

Which part of proper communication is difficult to do? Not telling the local MPs, sending out on a Friday afternoon, no press conference etc. On top of not providing data for three weeks.

@Thunderbolted

I'm due to visit my brother in Tynemouth for half term (we are self catering). It's our first holiday in 8 months. We're all partly vaccinated and planning mainly outdoor activities. They will need to make it law before I cancel. Their rates per 1000 are not that far off our rates - I just don't think the risk outweighs the benefit on this occasion.

@Thunderbolted Tynemouth infection rate is not too bad. www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/covid-infection-rate-north-tyneside-20671795#ICID=Android_ChronicleNewsApp_AppShare

To clarify then - those posters who aren't in affected areas (maybe you are and are just ver smug, I'm not sure) are you saying that us Leicester dwellers should be religiously going online daily to check there haven't been any restrictions slipped in over night? Actually, perhaps we should be checking several times daily in case somethings been popped on while we are on the school run? And if we don't do this we've no cause to grumble when they do?

It's not good enough. If the goalposts change it needs to be made public quickly and clearly.

It's like the guidance not to drive with your infected family from London to Durham, and have a day out to Barnard Castle on your wife's birthday.

You shouldn't really do it, but nothing will happen to you.

/////

Exactly tellmewhentheLangship I feel so cross about this. What’s the point of guidance but not telling anyone. I’m not in affected area but border Blackburn/Burnley. We have adhered to all guidance. Saturday we had 2 friends inside from affected area and Sunday MIL from affected area inside for Sunday dinner first time in 15 months. Sunday I shopped in my nearest M & S in affected area. I follow local council, county council, Lancashire telegraph etc. First I saw was on Twitter last night no link then 5 mins googling and I eventually found it - you’d think searching Covid guidance Burnley or Blackburn would have brought it up but it wasn’t publicised at all until late yesterday night. Meanwhile 25% of DC’s school bus of taxi in daily from affected areas but that’s ok?!

@Ellpellwood

My parents live in a tiny village on the Pennines, technically Kirklees, with 0-3 cases. If Boris thinks I'm cancelling my trip up there in June, involving 4 of us who will have had 2 doses, he can piss off.

That could well be my village, or one of the other nearby ones. As I posted earlier, we have had absolutely negligible numbers of cases here.

Much of Kirklees is actually very rural consisting of tiny villages and countryside. It just happens to be one administration that covers a vast and varied geographical area.

There's a huge reluctance to focus on exactly where the issues are, for some reason. I know, for example, that when the extra lockdown measures were in place last year, and we'd gone 9 weeks with zero cases in our area, the local authorities were vehemently against reduced lockdown measures for Kirklees Rural (as it's known) citing 'discrimination' as their reasoning...

Please do come and visit your parents!

Same here @Dixiechickonhols

Appalling lack of communication from our government and local authorities

Yes, and I don't know about you but now I'm retracing my stead since the weekend and a,though I'm half vaccinated (second on Thursday, what's the bloody point really but I'll do it) I'm imagining all those possible contacts.

Hilarious thing is I need to travel to Plague Central to go to Leicester Royal Infirmary for my second jab

Ahh the irony. If you don't laugh you'll cry.