Will employers be allowed to force us back to unventilated offices?

[feelingcold3]

My employer seems to think everything will be back to normal and we can all come back from 21st June.

I am concerned because our office has no opening windows. At the moment I am doing half working from home half office so we are socially distanced, but if we are all back every day I will be working closely next to people with no ventilation.

Is my employer being reasonable

[quote Workinghardeveryday]@feelingcold3
I totally understand your concerns.
I was going to say I am gob smacked by all the negative responses on here to a poster who is obviously worried about being forced back into an office environment working alongside people with no ventilation, but after all this is mumsnet isn’t it.
Sounds to me a lot of the posters who are all for going back into the work place sound pretty pissed off they were forced to work throughout and felt unsafe doing so. Also this fucked up idea that those wfh have had an easy ride!!! Now that is funny. Working double your hours every day for no thanks or extra payment is a great perk for missing the commute... also paying heating and electric costs that cost a fortune, yeah it’s been a breeze. And the home schooling while doing that has also been such a joy, not stressful at all.
It’s almost as if these people feel badly done to that the people working from home had it easy while they were forced to go out and work. Don’t get me wrong, throughout this whole thing I have thought it absolutely awful that people were forced into a work environment that they didn’t feel safe, I can only imagine the worry and stress involved in fear of catching the virus, must be horrific genuinely.
I don’t get how these people have had such a worrying time, much more so than those wfh, but will post on here how you should get on with it etc and go back into an unventilated office when the government have spent over a year putting the fear of god into you not to. We are told over and over to open windows, yet op gets negative comments because she is worried not doing this!
I have had both my vaccinations but have no immune system so it’s unlikely the vaccine will work on me, will they force me back into an unventilated office? Probably if they have the mindset of most of the posters on here.[/quote]
I've been working out of the home and I'm not scared of catching Covid at all, that's why I think some people are being precious. Most of us working out of the home haven't had time to worry as we have no choice, we are just getting on with it.

I must have imagined all the pictures of people sunbathing, renovating their house and garden, setting up elaborate home school corners for the kids and sipping coffee in their dressing gowns then, apologises.
I know some people will have been working effectively and honestly at home, but don't try and kid that the main concern about being in the office is being safe from covid 🤣. If you hate Barbara from sales and your commute is a pain in the arse just say so, even look for another job if you are that bothered, but whining about not being able to open an office window is hysterical after what many people have worked through in the last year.

We wont be going back into the office ever. A series of Agile Working groups were set up to discuss the options for staff going forward and with the exception of the odd meeting we are to continue working from home for the foreseeable. To be honest though there are areas in my work that have to be present so they have spread over both floors of the office and now there isnt room for the rest of us to return.

I must have imagined all the pictures of people sunbathing, renovating their house and garden, setting up elaborate home school corners for the kids and sipping coffee in their dressing gowns then, apologises.

Those people were furloughed not wfh. As you well know.

The OP needs to get back to work if that’s what her business wants, but plenty of people wfh worked very hard and there really is no need for the dickish comments.

@BoomChicka

I must have imagined all the pictures of people sunbathing, renovating their house and garden, setting up elaborate home school corners for the kids and sipping coffee in their dressing gowns then, apologises. I know some people will have been working effectively and honestly at home, but don't try and kid that the main concern about being in the office is being safe from covid 🤣. If you hate Barbara from sales and your commute is a pain in the arse just say so, even look for another job if you are that bothered, but whining about not being able to open an office window is hysterical after what many people have worked through in the last year.

My thoughts exactly! Wfh people have had the luxury of a fully paid, secure job throughout whilst others have worked out of the home the whole time, lots in public facing and unventilated areas. @Others have been losing their jobs left, right and centre. Sorry, I just can't drum up sympathy for people who have had the choice of when and if they leave their home and are now complaining that they have to go back to their actual job because there isn't a window! Especially now most people are vaccinated, and if you aren't it is because you are very low risk

Those of you who are teachers and complaining about, I must admit I don't understand why your union hasn't been more pro-active (they usually are very vocal). At the very least they should have been telling kids to wrap up well, thermals etc and take a blanket in as windows were going to be opened. I saw children walking to school dressed in blazers and no warm clothes all through the winter.

I’m sorry but I haven’t got any sympathy, we have had to work throughout in unventilated spaces with no protection, as well as having a child who was shielding in the first lockdown. The people I know who are resisting going back to work are the ones who are happy to now be going to gyms, pubs, restaurants and shopping centres.

Telling kids to wrap up and it happening are not the same. Cumbrian teens do not wear coats. It's social suicidal, apparently.
It's impossible to open windows in rooms with no opening windows

@TheKeatingFive

I must have imagined all the pictures of people sunbathing, renovating their house and garden, setting up elaborate home school corners for the kids and sipping coffee in their dressing gowns then, apologises.

Those people were furloughed not wfh. As you well know.

The OP needs to get back to work if that’s what her business wants, but plenty of people wfh worked very hard and there really is no need for the dickish comments.

No, if they were furloughed I would have said furloughed . These people were "working" from home. My next sentence acknowledges some people also worked hard and didn't take the piss. I can only judge from what I've seen posted by the workers themselves. Obviously the ones working hard weren't posting it all over SM.

I don’t get how these people have had such a worrying time, much more so than those wfh, but will post on here how you should get on with it etc and go back into an unventilated office when the government have spent over a year putting the fear of god into you not to.

Well that’s just it, isn’t it? Those people that have worked as normal for a year think there’s no reason for everyone else to go back to the office. Why is it ok and safe for some, but others say they couldn’t possibly.

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

Those of you who are teachers and complaining about, I must admit I don't understand why your union hasn't been more pro-active (they usually are very vocal). At the very least they should have been telling kids to wrap up well, thermals etc and take a blanket in as windows were going to be opened. I saw children walking to school dressed in blazers and no warm clothes all through the winter.

They were. Our Unions encouraged us to hand in Section 44 notice to refuse to work in unsafe conditions. The media went into a frenzy about ‘lazy’ teacher. Guess what? We went back to in school on the Monday and that evening BJ locked down - the day before he was on Andrew Marr stating ‘schools are safe’.

Things aren't like they were. We need to go back to normal, and yes, that includes going back to the office.

@OhGloriousDay

Do you expect to stay at home forever? You must be able to see that this isn’t tenable

To be honest, if someone's been successfully wfh for over a year then it clearly is tenable for wfh to be made permanent. Plenty of workplaces are doing just this (including DH's). I appreciate some people prefer to work in a office/do a mix of both, but to say it's untenable when it's been fine since March last year just isn't true.

Wfh means less time and money wasted spent on travelling, less pollution and better work/life balance for many. And now it's been done for so long staff (and businesses) are beginning to realise there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't continue. DH's company have not renewed the lease on their office so they haven't got one to go back to anyway!

And I say all that as someone who thinks it's time to get back to normal. I just don't believe that 'normal' needs to be exactly the same as it was in 2019. We've all learned a lot from the last year and it makes sense to carry on with the (few) positives.

@IcedPurple

I have had both my vaccinations but have no immune system so it’s unlikely the vaccine will work on me, will they force me back into an unventilated office?

You have 'no immune system'?

Really?

How have you survived into adulthood, being as an immune system is neccessary to stay alive?

Lots of drugs dampen the immune system to almost nothing. The drugs I take for an autoimmune condition, for example.

if someone's been successfully wfh for over a year then it clearly is tenable for wfh

I suspect there are a lot of people who claim they have been ‘successfully WFH’ but what they actually mean is they have got used to getting up later/not having to commute/being able put their washing on during the day etc

If your employer says it’s time to go back to work, you go back or find a new job. You can’t say it’s not safe for you when it’s clearly safe enough for most other people.

@TheVampiresWife

And I say all that as someone who thinks it's time to get back to normal. I just don't believe that 'normal' needs to be exactly the same as it was in 2019. We've all learned a lot from the last year and it makes sense to carry on with the (few) positives.

That's fine but just say you want to continue working from home because of the convenience then. Don't make it about "safety" because it's galling to people who have been working out of the home throughout.

If your employer says it's time to go back and that wfh is ending then yes you do have to go back regardless of whether there's a window in the office or not.
Alternatively you can look for a new job

My work space has no windows. Just an open door leading into a hall. Yep, I'm a teacher.

Lots of drugs dampen the immune system to almost nothing. The drugs I take for an autoimmune condition, for example.

So how did the poster previously survive in an 'unventilated office' then?

And I say all that as someone who thinks it's time to get back to normal. I just don't believe that 'normal' needs to be exactly the same as it was in 2019. We've all learned a lot from the last year and it makes sense to carry on with the (few) positives.

If an employee and their employers are happy for them to continue WFH, great. But to claim that it's unfair that you're being 'forced' to return to work because you 'don't feel safe' can't be a valid reason for too much longer.

To answer the OPs question, yes allowed to, if the 'work from home' guidance is ended. Is it reasonable given half time in the office seems to work, not in my opinion. I think full time should wait until all have had both vaccines.

@IcedPurple
Apologies, if you want to split hairs, I worded incorrectly. I have an extremely compressed immune system because of my meds that keep me alive.
To say I would use this as an excuse to not go back into an office i did not feel safe is quite honestly a ridiculous statement. I haven’t seen any family or friends throughout, yet I should sit in an unventilated office for hours a day sat next to others.
I have to be very careful everyday of my life, constantly catching colds that last weeks. And before you ask no I don’t go off sick because of it, I work when ill.
Sorry but you just come across as bitter that others have in your eyes had an easy ride working from home when that really isn’t the case for most people I know.

Your employer has an obligation under H&M legislation to make appropriate adjustments to make / keep the workplace safe and that includes adequate ventilation. Adequate will include an air con system that circulates air. Measures that can and frankly should also be taken include spacing and arranging desk spaces so that people are further apart / sit back to back / have adequate walkways without getting too close (much of which may require people not to all be in at once, so rotating teams in office). Air purifiers can be bought, air con systems upgraded to draw in fresh air. There is extensive govt and ACAS guidance on the subject which you can look up. Air con engineers are selling shovels in a gold rush and are working flat out to accommodate the needs of reasonable employers and landlords. Many landlords are doing the work at their own expense to retain tenants. The bolshy brigade telling you that they’ve worked in an unventilated cupboard and therefore so should to are the ones being mugged off by their employers. (I say this as an employer who is going through the process of making our offices safe for employees to come back at our and our landlord’s expense)

Obv H&s not H&M! Speaks volumes about my auto correct 😂