I refused the AZ vaccine, now being judged for it

[cosmoswithcovids]

My husband's friend is a Dr, he called yesterday to tell my DH they had spare vaccine and to come over if we wanted one (DH is 33, I'm 30).

We got there and he told us it was AZ, I said I wanted to wait until I was offered the alternative that under 40s are advised to have. My DH looked at me as though I had two heads.

We joined them for drinks at the pub last night where Dr and a couple of other friends were discussing anti-vaxers and I was referenced as one of them. I did reiterate that I'm very keen to be vaccinated but not with AZ. It was then mansplained to me that discrediting the AZ jab (which they've all had and are fiiiiiiiiiiine) was the behaviour of an anti vaxer. I was just meant to feel a bit like an uneducated idiot (I'm not, I'm a solicitor, I'm quite bright) and although my husband says he understood why I didn't want it, the risk is "theoretical" (is it?!)
For the sake of another couple of weeks, I'd rather just wait and have the one which is safer! I'm just feeling a bit rubbish about it all really, I felt quite bounced into it when we got there and it was quite a stress for me having to justify why I didn't want it once we arrived.

The advice is to offer an alternative if there's one available, not that under 40s shouldn't be given AZ

Needs repeating again and again.

I do feel weird about people who refuse certain vaccine but happy to get other. None of the vaccine is 100% safe, and other vaccines have other risks. I wonder people who think AZ is dangerous and refuse because of yellow card reports actually had a look at the reports of other vaccines.

I wouldn't have had it either OP (I'm early 30s too). The vaccine is becoming a badge of how clever and right thinking people are. Hesitancy about injecting something into your body that is new and not advised for under 40s anymore is not stupid. It would be more stupid to do it despite being anxious because essentially you are being peer pressured into it. The situation that you were in sounds difficult and I think you should feel pretty good that you stood your ground.

I haven't had my second dose because I had covid quite recently and there is evidence that covid plus one dose is effective. There is not yet a lot of research into how the immune system responds to covid plus two doses, either negatively or positively. I don't tell anyone in real life though because people genuinely seem to think any hesitancy makes you an anti vax, right wing, Trump supporting brexiter. Now that's a stupid way to be.

'Report this GP. I mean it.
Offering his mates the jab - nepotism.'

We had one day with almost 200 no-shows later in the day - it was sunny outside and a weekend - which was unprecedented. Now the vaccine can just stay in the fridge for the clinic the next day, however all those no shows means 60-70 staff and volunteers basically twiddling their thumbs. GPs, nurses, pharmacists, admin, volunteers giving up their time just to stand around.
So the clinical lead told us if we knew of anyone, still waiting their first vaccination, who fell WITHIN the age or health criteria, we could call them and they could come in that evening.
WITHIN the criteria is the important bit, no queue jumping. Usually there's only handful of no shows, so the staff or volunteers who need a first or 2nd jab will be the ones to get it.

[quote Nonbibblebibble]@cosmoswithcovids. Out of interest, when you go for your official vaccine appt are you going to refuse AZ if that's what they have?[/quote]
She’s 30, I was under the impression it’s highly unlikely she’ll be offered AZ if she waits for her invitation.

@SarahMused

If you didn’t want the AZ vaccine why didn’t you ask which vaccine it was before agreeing to go? Maybe a dose was wasted that could have been offered to someone else. Turning up and then refusing would annoy me more than someone who had made a conscious decision not to have a particular vaccine.

Because they dont tell you which one you get in advance, its whatever they have at the center.

My husband just had his, he asked and the coldnt tell him which one it was until they where getting physically ready to stab him with it - many of the pregnant women in the group im in also have asked and been told they cant be told in advance.

Hmm. A little tricky but in my view you are similar to an antivaxxer as your concern re a risk is completely out of proportion. You were lucky to be offered it and should have taken it in my view unless you actually have a medical reason not to. Having a vaccine is not just to protect you - it protects others. We all have a moral responsibility to take it as soon as it is offered. The ‘risk’ associated with AZ is minuscule based on the available data and no vaccine has zero risk. Unfortunately politics have been allowed to play too much of a role here in which vaccine is ‘best’. For this pandemic to be over, we need wide roll out of cheap, easy to store vaccines - and Pfizer isn’t it.

@Cornettoninja

'She’s 30, I was under the impression it’s highly unlikely she’ll be offered AZ if she waits for her invitation.'

And I can tell you that there is absolutely no guarantee of that. It all depends on vaccine supplies, and the priority is giving the same vaccine for the 2nd as the 1st. not giving an alternative to AZ to the under 40s.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
And the 2nd vaccines are being still given to those who really need them - older people, vulnerable people, front line workers.

If AZ was the only vaccine then it would have been the wrong decision to make, but its not the only vaccine and its not recommended for your age group so you didn't make a wrong decision. Not everyone would make the same decision, preferring to take the small risk and get vaccinated sooner, but its also perfectly fine to wait for the appropriate vaccine for your age.

And the UK really is an outlier here, for good reasons of course, because the covid situation has been so bad in the UK and the heavy reliance on AZ in the vaccine programme, but in so many other countries there would be no question of you having the AZ because there are safer options. Even the elderly in my country will be offered an alternative for their second dose if they prefer not to take AZ again and I think this helps lessen vaccine hesitancy which is so important right now.

@Change45

Hmm. A little tricky but in my view you are similar to an antivaxxer as your concern re a risk is completely out of proportion. You were lucky to be offered it and should have taken it in my view unless you actually have a medical reason not to. Having a vaccine is not just to protect you - it protects others. We all have a moral responsibility to take it as soon as it is offered. The ‘risk’ associated with AZ is minuscule based on the available data and no vaccine has zero risk. Unfortunately politics have been allowed to play too much of a role here in which vaccine is ‘best’. For this pandemic to be over, we need wide roll out of cheap, easy to store vaccines - and Pfizer isn’t it.

I don’t think you know what an antivaxxer actually is if you think it’s someone who turns down one particular vaccine that it not recommended for their age group.

Of course you were right to refuse it. The same people who've been shouting about following the science now are shouting about how minimal the risk is and totally ignoring the advice given by the same people they've worshipped this past year. There's a reason why they've pulled it for anyone under 40 and people shouldn't be questioning anyone for showing concern.

@MargaretThursday

You know Pfizer also has a blood clot risk right?

I've just looked it up.
Apparently the risk of these specific type of blood clots if you have Pfizer is approximately 4 in a million.

AZ is 5 in a million.

The risk if you get covid is 100 times greater.

Not for a 25 year old. Risk of fatal clot from AZ vaccine in a 25 year old is 11 in a million. 4 in a million stat is for a 55 year old.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/explainers-56665396.amp

Your body your choice. They can feck off.

Also isnt there a code of ethics they're not meant to discuss medical personal issues down the pub?

@Jenala

I wouldn't have had it either OP (I'm early 30s too). The vaccine is becoming a badge of how clever and right thinking people are. Hesitancy about injecting something into your body that is new and not advised for under 40s anymore is not stupid. It would be more stupid to do it despite being anxious because essentially you are being peer pressured into it. The situation that you were in sounds difficult and I think you should feel pretty good that you stood your ground.

I haven't had my second dose because I had covid quite recently and there is evidence that covid plus one dose is effective. There is not yet a lot of research into how the immune system responds to covid plus two doses, either negatively or positively. I don't tell anyone in real life though because people genuinely seem to think any hesitancy makes you an anti vax, right wing, Trump supporting brexiter. Now that's a stupid way to be.

It isn't 'not advised'. It's been said that under 40s may be offered a choice.

The risks are minute.
You have more chance of dying in a car accident on the motorway.

You're entitled to be offered an alternative and you were simply exercising that right. It's not on for any medical professional to guilt trip or belittle you for that. That's really not ok even if it was done in jest.

More to the point whats this vaccine priority of ‘who you know’ surely most medical places have a waiting list of those who want the vaccine for doses that are left over.

Hardly sounds like they gave you a massively hard time. Im not really surprised frontline healthcare workers such as doctors arent particularly impressed with people that are freaking out about a vaccine after all the deaths and lockdowns and restrictions we have had and continue to have while waiting for people to get their vaccines. The only reason we are slowly coming out the other side of this pandemic here, unlike other countries is because so many people are being vaccinated. You are benefitting from the herd immunity right now, and yet wouldnt do your bit when offered the chance.
You say you were "judged". Big deal. People have opinions. Its hardly a pineapple on pizza opinion.

Why are some on MN so determined everyone should have the AZ jab and ignore the risks? Do you not think the doctors and scientists on the JCVI who are experts in vaccines know better? They wouldn't have made the recommendation to offer an alternative to under 40s if they didn't think the benefits vs risk calculation didn't require it, and they also know there's no supply issue, we can give Pfizer/Moderna to under 40s now without impacting the second doses of anyone more vulnerable.

For anyone upset about the waste of one dose while people in Brazil and India are desperate for vaccines, maybe have a read of this article on how many doses were wasted when Malawi decided to destroy them: www.reuters.com/world/africa/malawi-burns-nearly-20000-expired-covid-19-shots-despite-assurances-shelf-life-2021-05-19/

OP, your GP seems to be a bit of a dick, on many levels.

-Humiliating you in public and framing you as an 'anti-vaxxer' when it's clear you're nothing of the kind.
-Dismissing your concerns which are based on your personal medical history.
-Criticising your adherence to current government/NHS advice for under-40s to go for the Pfizer or Moderna wherever possible.
-Doing all this in a public setting (pub) and talking, as your GP, about medical matters in public.
-And yes, operating what appears to be a preferential system of ringing up his mates and offering them leftover doses of vaccine, when surely all GP practices have a priority list to work down?!

I'd be wondering about taking some of this up with the practice manager, to be honest. The GP has been fairly unprofessional.

Hope you get your vaccine soon. As you know, the risks of clotting from AZ are extremely rare but apparently of sufficient concern that the government changed the guidelines. That really ought to be enough.

The risk from AZ may be miniscule, but if you are a healthy person in your 30s, your risk of serious effects from CV are also miniscule.
The most significant reason to get it is virtue signalling at that point. There was an argument to be made for protecting vulnerable people, but they should all have already been vaccinated.
You're not being unreasonable at all, but I'm not surprised by the response.

It isn't 'not advised'. It's been said that under 40s may be offered a choice
this is wrong - it has been advised to the best of my knowledge - science advice is for women under a certain age to get an alternative. this is partly where science and politics get muddled up though - make sure you are looking at science advice if you are in an area of the world where the two don't always match up

"Out of interest, when you go for your official vaccine appt are you going to refuse AZ if that's what they have?"

I don't honestly know @Nonbibblebibble, before creating this thread I had just assumed that when I was offered the vaccine, it would be an alternative to AZ. Surely if the government advice is to offer an alternative to AZ, this is what vaccination centres will be doing?

I'm really not meaning to be an arsehole, I'd just prefer to have the alternative, given the advice.

Some vaccine centres are turning people away if they are below the recommended age for AZ. Your DH's friend is well meaning but he shouldn't have put you in that position. At the very least he should have told you without needing to be asked.

He wasted that vaccine, not you.

because we need to take the vaccines that are offered. The risks with AZ have been way overblown and it was clearly a political move.
The reccomendation to offer other types is to increase vaccine uptake but it seems to have just made idiots freak out even more about a non issue.

Even the smackhead who begs at the bottom of my road was all worried about not knowing whats in the vaccine, when hes literally on smack