Question to Those of you who reckon UK should have closed borders to India long ago

[lljkk]

When should they have closed... on what date, and why on that date?
Plus how "closed" would that mean, onto "red list" or something even stricter -- how strict?

I'm thinking how the "should have closed borders to India sooner" criteria would affect next decisions about which countries to put on red list next.

@lljkk

When should they have closed... on what date, and why on that date? Plus how "closed" would that mean, onto "red list" or something even stricter -- how strict?

I'm thinking how the "should have closed borders to India sooner" criteria would affect next decisions about which countries to put on red list next.

OK some facts:

Pakistan and Bangladesh were added to the travel ban list on April 2 and the implementation came into effect on April 9, when India was reporting more than 100,000 Covid-19 cases per day and witnessing an exponential surge. The United Kingdom placed India on the red list on April 19 and the travel ban came into effect from April 23

It made absolutely ZERO scientific sense to put Pakistan and Bangladesh on the list and EXCLUDE India - the only reason we did so was for fear of upsetting someone with whom Boris wanted a trade deal.

Red list would have been fine - all the damage regarding the Indian variant was done with the hundreds, possibly thousands of cases that were imported BEFORE it went on the red list.

so bk1632 wanted India put on redlist on April 2 2021, because India was reporting 100k cases/day & case growth in India was on an exponential trajectory on that date.

@lljkk

so bk1632 wanted India put on redlist on April 2 2021, because India was reporting 100k cases/day & case growth in India was on an exponential trajectory on that date.

AND it possessed a variant with similar properties to ones categorised as variants of concern - we knew this from December.

I strongly suspect that the government was advised to include India, but chose not to.

Bkw1632 says there were possibly hundreds of imports before 2 April, and these probably caused "all the damage", so why wouldn't you want India on redlist before 2 April -- or else why bother putting India on redlist from 2 April if damage already done?

While people in UK, haven't been to holiday and have to had limited weddings, people could go to India attended weddings birth cermonys ect as they are essential Apparently

The only people who should have been travelling should.have been truly essential workers.

And if people ended up stuck over there well you shouldn't have gone.

It's not just the red list it's also everything else at lhw seemingly based on "trust", flabby abs weak and people from anywhere doing exactly what they want.

This is why after Andrew marr quoting the border person this am, I feel pretty deflated and hopefuless.

It's been a rubbing rampant and we are probably looking at another major lock down, so I'd rather get out and enjoy things now before that happens m

I dont think its just about red listing countries. It's about the notice - and hence surge of flights taken in the days between an announcement and implication. It's also about not then mixing several flights in the border control hall for several hours.

Do I believe there were political reasons for not including India earlier? Yes. Do I think restricting entry earlier would have reduced the sead points in the UK?Yes. Do i think there would still be exponential growth of Indian variant C19 in the UK right now unless we completly closed the borders last year? Yes.
Its not an exact science. However I do think the England home quarantine isnt fit for purpose - and indeed know several people who havnt followed it, and wonder how much tgag has contributed to the speed at which this variant has spread.

Absolutely ridiculous that we have made so many sacrifices for covid but still allowed people to travel abroad. I say this as an immigrant who hasn’t travelled hone to see family since before the first lockdown.
I know many families who have travelled to abroad for family events since the beginning of the first lockdown. Borders should be closed , although it’s probably too late !

I've got family and friends friends all over, there has been a sudden and tragic death and no one could be together, it's a pandemic, it's awful but it is what it is.

I'm feel let down, why can't we get a grip on people flitting around? Pin them down?

The borders should have been closed from early last year for all but essential travel with quarantine enforced coming back as well as a negative test. Exceptions being freight etc.

I can't go to a pub for six months but I can fly to India mix freely with dozens/hundreds of people and then come back. Bonkers.

@User135644

The borders should have been closed from early last year for all but essential travel with quarantine enforced coming back as well as a negative test. Exceptions being freight etc.

I can't go to a pub for six months but I can fly to India mix freely with dozens/hundreds of people and then come back. Bonkers.

Exactly this. The U.K. is an embarrassment. There should be closed borders with strict quarantining for people who need to travel. Like Australia, NZ and Singapore. People here are told when they can hug their families but at the same time others are travelling abroad. And then schools to mix everyone. If borders are not controlled the rest is just unfair and absurd.

@User135644

The borders should have been closed from early last year for all but essential travel with quarantine enforced coming back as well as a negative test. Exceptions being freight etc.

I can't go to a pub for six months but I can fly to India mix freely with dozens/hundreds of people and then come back. Bonkers.

I agree Borders could have been closed and strict quarantine required from everyone but the most essential travellers (i.e. bringing food and essentials into the country)

Not "quarantine at home, but only if you feel like it, and you can travel home by public transport stopping at tesco on the way". Proper 2 week hotel quarantine for all incoming travellers. Australia have managed to do this for months now.

So to answer your questions, borders to India (and everywhere else) should have been closed since March 23rd 2020

@lljkk

When should they have closed... on what date, and why on that date? Plus how "closed" would that mean, onto "red list" or something even stricter -- how strict?

I'm thinking how the "should have closed borders to India sooner" criteria would affect next decisions about which countries to put on red list next.

All borders should have closed back in march 2020 and shouldn't have repented until globally things were more stable

Most replies haven't really talked about India. Digressed to other counter-factuals. I was wondering about criteria to put India on redlist (inspired by another thread but not TAAT).

Anyway, If people only want to talk about decisions in early 2020,

NZ closed borders on 16 March
NZ had 1st cv19 death on 29 March

UK had 1st cv19 death on 5 March 2020
Uk started Lockdowns on 23 March.
Do PP wish UK had shut borders including locking our own nationals out, on about 21 Feb 2020? How would that work in Northern Ireland?

I know people who went back and forth to Pakistan for family visits in January. Because they wanted to, not because they needed to. Not enough checking. I taught children in departure lounges of airports in India as part of our remote learning. The whole thing was leaky like a sieve.

Anyway sorry, yes I think India should have been on the red list when Pakistan and Bangladesh were put on, because of the reasons in the first response. Indians and Pakistanis I know couldn't work out why it wasn't.

Boris...? Is that you trying to make policy based on public opinion again?!

There should be no non essential travel to and from anywhere. Doesn't matter where. Truly essential only - with proper testing, tracking, and real quarantine where necessary (i.e. not getting public transport home first).

As the UK government clearly won't do that, then for our 'traffic light' system, it was obvious India should've been added at the same time as Pakistan and Bangladesh. When we knew the cases were rising.

Do PP wish UK had shut borders including locking our own nationals out, on about 21 Feb 2020
As stated clearly in my post, I think we should have shut borders on 23rd March when the lockdown started. Our own nationals, or people who had to travel for whatever reason, should have been subject to a 2 week hotel quarantine.

@ChocOrange1

Do PP wish UK had shut borders including locking our own nationals out, on about 21 Feb 2020 As stated clearly in my post, I think we should have shut borders on 23rd March when the lockdown started. Our own nationals, or people who had to travel for whatever reason, should have been subject to a 2 week hotel quarantine.

This.

For the whole of the lockdown dual nationals and British citizens with a registered address overseas have been able to come and go as they pleased.

Many have taken advantage of this to travel back and forth to visit family members, attend family celebrations, and take a holiday in their home country.

My neighbours have been able to visit their loved ones on another continent twice since Christmas, while I have been banned from visiting my relatives in another county. It is the failure to address this glaring loophole which has contributed to the import of variants of concern.

@lljkk

When should they have closed... on what date, and why on that date? Plus how "closed" would that mean, onto "red list" or something even stricter -- how strict?

I'm thinking how the "should have closed borders to India sooner" criteria would affect next decisions about which countries to put on red list next.

Don't really understand what you are after here?

The science/data dictates which countries are on red lists etc or it should be (assuming thats the model the govt wants to follow)

What it shouldn't be based on are trade deals and Bojo's desire to have a jolly abroad.

The whole thing is so unfair. A lot of people in Bolton who are in hospital didn’t have the jab when it was offered to them, so some people have gone abroad without being vaccinated and then come back to the UK spread the virus and then ended up in hospital which in turn fills up our hospitals which could cause another lockdown, how selfish can you get. At least have the vaccine when it’s offered.

Someone on radio was explaining that Pakistan & Bangladesh went on red list due to too little testing, at a time when India had lots of testing. P & B didn't go on red list due to their case count at time.

Maybe govt needs to explain more about their reasons.