To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

I’ve been super cautious for over a year now. So will be encouraging everyone I trust to keep checking as tests are free so we can stay safe and look out for each other.
Ventured to eat in one local cafe in the summer found table not cleaned from night before. Put me off for life. If some establishments can’t be trusted to be safe I can’t feel comfortable now.

People's hopes and expectations may be skewed by where in the Uk they live or work.
In my area in Kent we have a population of about 110,000. No deaths since February 21st ; according to the local trust no one in hospital with covid and 5 cases in the last week.
I think we'll carry on while keeping an eye on things.

From OP - "amylou8 please read my OP, vaccine uptake is actually low, especially in my area. There are a multitude of reasons for this. Do we not owe these people protection?"

I don't owe anyone who has been offered the vaccine and refuses to take it a single thing although I do understand the logic of not fully opening up until all adults have been offered the vaccine.

No I will be seeing my family inside next week. All adults are fully vaccinated and I would like my son to be able to spend time with them. He isn’t walking yet so the time we can spend outside is limited. Going and sitting in a restaurant with him won’t work. We didn’t get to have them inside at Xmas due to tier 4 so we didn’t even get that reprieve. The rates in my area are currently less than 20 per 100,000. We will take sensible precautions. I have no interest in eating out, having my hair done. I get the economic arguments but I would just like my family to have time with their first grandchild which doesn’t involve us freezing our butts off or him frustrated as there isn’t much for him to do.

I do apologise that I haven’t followed the correct ‘“Etticute”’. I think that labelling it “aggressive” is a bit much, but you do seem rather prone to hyperbole.

@NoSquirrels I think idiot is a bit harsh. None of what she is planning to do is against the rules from Monday. Which is my concern. I see a lot of people doing individual risk assessments which is great but not everyone will do that I think the government need to really spell it out that just because you could meet multiple people a day it doesn't mean you should! A school mum is having six kids over to her small terrace house next week, that's her interpretation of the rule of six. If you say it's ok to mix inside then people will take that anyway they want to.

Honestly, not trying to sound flippant but from what I can see around me.. a demographic of decent people who have all done the very best they can for the last year plus... Everyone has lost it now and are already doing pretty much what they want.

I totally agree, that is exactly what I have seen locally and talked about with family and friends.

So what should people do if they have no family locally outside of their own household so are travelling hundreds of miles to see friends or relatives they haven't seen for 18 months? Meet up in a cafe or restaurant for max 2 hours then go home again? That's if you can get a booking for inside. Or stay at a hotel or airbnb for a few days and only see them for 2 hours a day in a cafe or pub and never set foot in their house? Don't think so.

A school mum is having six kids over to her small terrace house next week, that's her interpretation of the rule of six.

If those six children are already mixing at school anyway that sounds pretty reasonable.

@chubley well at least you still have the luxury of breaking the rules to see your family. Due to travel restrictions I can't even if I wanted to.

I’ve been having family in the house for months. Sat at about 3m distance.

There’s no way I would force my elderly grandparents to sit outside in the cold and rain just for the sake of the government’s rules.

They’ve all been fully vaccinated now, are happy to do it and so there’s no way I would stop them

I'll be seeing people inside regardless of if they change it again.

Yes. I won't be going indoors.

I don't want schools closed again or a long winter lockdown. Best to be cautious now while the summer approaches. We might be almost there if we're sensible and blitz vaccinations.

There is always going to be some new variant. If it wasn’t the Kent one it was the Indian one etc. Covid isn’t going away, delaying opening up will just postpone things, it won’t help in the long run.

We have to start living normally now. It’s not fair or right to ban people from seeing their own family.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on.

And, according to Nicola Sturgeon, has been the primary cause of spread, in Scotland at least.

There is always going to be some new variant.

Caused mostly by unfettered spread.

We have to start living normally now.

Or we could wait a couple of months more until we have much fuller coverage of vaccines.

It’s not fair or right to ban people from seeing their own family.

You can see them outside. Covid doesn’t care about fair.

As I said in a thread a few months ago, the ban that we have had on meeting in homes is extremely unusual internationally.

Most comparable countries have either always allowed mixing in homes just with a limit on gathering numbers (examples include Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and Denmark), or have only ever banned it indirectly by means of a full stay-at-home order (examples include France, Italy and many US states) with mixing being allowed again as soon as the stay-at home-order starts to lift.

The situation that we have had for over a year now in which our government has decided that it can reopen the economy while maintaining a full and indefinite lockdown of private homes and gardens is an astonishingly draconian government intrusion into family life. It simply hasn't happened in most countries, it shouldn't have happened here, and it certainly needs to stop happening here now.

Op I don’t understand you mention people that you know badly effected by the virus but yet you think indoor mixing shouldn’t happen.
It was always to stop the nhs being overwhelmed and protect the vulnerable. The majority are vaccinated and before someone says not all I’m not saying all I’m saying the majority are and that is what matters. If it’s to protect every single person then we would lock down indefinitely and that’s just madness .
I see your points op and your not wrong but for me this variant doesn’t scare me at all and we should continue as we are . Ramp up the vaccine in high infection areas . Supporting isolation and increasing testing not keep locking down .

Totally agreed @LastOrdersMaura although you will get lots of stick from the idiots on here who read a newspaper column and now believe they're qualified to hold an opinion on how to deal with an epidemic.

Not only would pausing indoor mixing help prevent the new variant from spreading until we can tighten up vaccinations, but it would actually be possible to police.

While the rules from Monday are clear, the reality is that large chunks of the population will attempt to go back to completely normal life and will mix with complete disregard for the new rules.

@bookworm1632 you mean, like you are doing? Everyone’s opinion is valid.

We have been having one person in our house for months. This was allowed anyway on caring for a vulnerable person grounds but will continue to be safer than going to a cafe or restaurant to meet that person and being in the same room as lots of others ( which ds couldn't do anyway because of his autism).

[quote LastOrdersMaura]@amylou8 please read my OP, vaccine uptake is actually low, especially in my area. There are a multitude of reasons for this. Do we not owe these people protection?[/quote]
No, we don’t. If people choose not to be vaccinated, they can take their chances. Enough is enough.

@TempsPerdu

Are you suggesting that a little rain is a problem for people to deal with, during a global pandemic so scientific advice should just be ignored?

People should be bothered by a little rain when they haven’t seen their families for months on end?

My elderly parents took a 350 mile day trip to see us as we were physically unable to do the distance this time. We sat outside and mum was given water bottles and blankets to keep warm as she feels the cold. When the rain started we put up umbrellas. It was worth it for her to hug her grandchildren.

Pre- Covid the rain soaked BBQ was a badge of pride. Now we whinge that we want to go indoors?

My Stance on this has been the same since day 1, focus on your own life, do what makes you feel safe, and don't concern yourself on what others or doing.

We haven’t seen my parents since July as they are too far away (250 miles) to see without an overnight stay. I will be furious if we can’t see them at half term because of the entirely predictable results of not closing the borders to travel from India (much of which seems to have been people travelling to see their families). Compliance with lockdown drove down cases and pressure on the NHS, it is hugely unfair to keep people from seeing their families in this country because the government decided to let multiple cases of a new variant in.

I think the June 21st reopening could be paused but people need to have the rudiments of a normal life unless the NHS is going to be overwhelmed across the country. The government decided brazenly to let these cases in, they should now shoulder the burden of dealing with it with additional funding/ resources for enforcing isolation, surge testing and remaining restrictions in affected areas, not pass the buck to everyone who has made sacrifices already.

@MintyMabel You can see them outside. Covid doesn’t care about fair.

And I don't care about covid anymore. Works both ways.