School still requiring masks in communal areas

[TheFuckThatIGave]

We've just had letters today from both ds's schools saying that following discussions amongst area heads, all secondaries in the area will still be requiring students to wear face masks in communal areas from Monday, exempt students aside. This is directly contrary to the DfE guidance this week. Anyone else had similar?

@twelly

It is irrevelant what has happened - decisions made by individual schools is not based on all the evidence , since when is a head better informed than SAGE - what's more it then means that other schools are bounced into similar courses of actions. We either have a rule for masks across schools that says wear a mask or one that says don't

Well sage said "covid loves a crowd"

Know any empty school corridors during term time?

There's a strange correlation here between people who want masks removed and those who can't fucking read.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this wins the internet today

This is a fact, schools should not be overriding the decisions, we live in a democratic society

Schools have a responsibility towards their staff and their students, including those who may be particularly vulnerable. Individual head teachers - bearing in mind they will be party to information about the health of staff and students - taking the decision that at this clearly precarious moment in the history of covid they don’t want to be responsible for the serious illness or death of someone in their community is not unreasonable. Masks might just help with that. In my school, many of us can’t stand mask wearing but we absolutely understand why it has been necessary. Our LA has asked us to wear masks till June and that is what we will be doing.

The rules have changed that is the point , therefore schools still adopting the policy are not complying . Of course people can choose, schools choosing to keep these measures is not in keeping with the law and in my view should not have the authority to override the regulations. Of course we all have views on masks and the effectiveness but I feel that we have now national regulations which we follow and schools are not above this - either way. Iif schools had said no masks when the government had said masks then I would have argued similarly that the school should follow national regulations

There aren’t regulations, only guidance. How many times?!

Of course people can choose, schools choosing to keep these measures is not in keeping with the law and in my view should not have the authority to override the regulations.

What law, please?

Of course people can choose, schools choosing to keep these measures is not in keeping with the law

Guidance, not law. Health and safety law IS law.

It was mandatory to wear masks in schools it now is not !!

The rules have changed that is the point , therefore schools still adopting the policy are not complying

Also, some are not adopting the policy because their local authority / local public health have told them to keep masks. Does national guidance trump local guidance, or vice versa? In fact, a head's legal health and safety responsibility trumps all, as I understand it.

Year group just gone into isolation at DC's school, btw. Very, very low case area, has been throughout the pandemic. Indian variant. Wipes out 150+ pupils, including Y13 students taking final A-level assessments, due to in school and in transport contacts. Those arguing they are in low case rate areas so 'everything's fine' - it can happen anywhere. Hopefully, as mask wearing has been strictly enforced, the self isolation will be enough to prevent the outbreak spreading further within the school.

@twelly

It was mandatory to wear masks in schools it now is not !!

Law, or guidance?

It's also worth pointing out that the absence of law to make something happen does not equal a law against it.

To clarify: It is illegal to drive over 30 in a 30 mile speed limit. It does not follow that where there is NOT a 30 mile speed limit, it is illegal to drive at 30..

Equally, the absence of a law making the wearing of masks in schools mandatory does not make the existence of a school rule requiring the wearing of masks in a particular school illegal.

Gov.U.K. Website ; facecovings no longer required in schools and colleges from May 17

'No longer required' does NOT equal 'there must not be a request for them to be worn'.

Think about it. 'Wearing a suit to the office is no longer required' does NOT make it illegal to wear a suit.

Glad your school is being sensible

Perfectly give for those in schools to wear them it is just not mandatory and should not be made mandatory by individual schools

Think about it

Good luck with that!

@twelly

Perfectly give for those in schools to wear them it is just not mandatory and should not be made mandatory by individual schools

Lots of things in schools are not 'mandatory' in the legal sense but are still rules that the community keeps to in order to protect the safety of those within it - and staff and others enforce those rules every day.

'Keep on the left of the stairs'

'One way down this narrow corridor'

'Bags kept under the desk so nobody trips'

'Long hair tied back in Science'

'Wear masks in communal spaces within the school and continue to take two LFTs per week' fall into the same category, but in a time of pandemic are mitigations to a much greater risk - and heads legally MUST mitigate such the risk as far as possible, after using their best judgement and the guidance of those locally (local public health, local authorities, Governors, experts etc).

And we should remember that ALL the actual experts - SAGE, BMA etc - support the wearing of masks in schools.

Health and safety law requires the school to assess risks and put in place proportionate control measures.

Also Gov.uk

If a head decides that wearing masks is a proportionate control measure to the risks IN THEIR PARTICULAR SCHOOL, they are legally required to put that mitigation in place. General guidance does not remove that legal obligation.

Sage make decisions based purely on covid

The gov makes choices based on other data supporting the impact of those choices

I’m presuming the counter argument won on the basis on such low cases

Given how wrong sage modelling is I’m not convinced they truly are the experts

Sage make decisions based purely on covid

Which is why they should be taken into account when heads are discharging their Health and Safety responsibilities for the staff and students within their institutions.

Heads do not have to decide whether non-essential shops should open, or whether leisure centres can run inside classes. That;'s the government's job - and note that staff in most of those places, and the ublic in many, have to wear masks.

Heads do, however, have to risk assess their own institution for all risks, including Covid, and mitigate them. If heads decide - based on age profile of staff, profile of students, current Covid levels, local guidance, layout of buildings, detailed knowledge of the impact (if any) on the learning and progress of their students, etc - that continuing mask wearing for 2 more weeks is a sensible mitigation to reduce risks to a more acceptable level , that is their legal duty.

So heads have access to the data showing the effect of masks on learning, communication etc etc?

Because the gov do and presumably at this moment have deemed that those issues are now outweighing benefit of masks

So heads should not be making their own rules up without having the full picture

It’s dosgy ground for a school to go it alone and not follow advice

I gov guidance it states clearly that schools must apply for permission to deviate from gov guidance

I’m not confident all these heads have

The guidance makes it clear they cannot force their own rules

What data exists about the effects of masks on learning? I can't imagine how they would have found such data.