School still requiring masks in communal areas

[TheFuckThatIGave]

We've just had letters today from both ds's schools saying that following discussions amongst area heads, all secondaries in the area will still be requiring students to wear face masks in communal areas from Monday, exempt students aside. This is directly contrary to the DfE guidance this week. Anyone else had similar?

@cantkeepawayforever

We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

ANYONE who says this, or is saying that schools should do exactly what the government says 'because the government must be right' has an extremely short and selective memory.

Remember January 4th 2021, the first day of term for the vast majority of schools.

Before Christmas, schools in areas with devastatingly high levels of Covid infection due to the surging Kent variant tried to move to online learning .... and were threatened with legal action by the Government.

On January 4th, schools were ordered to re-open as normal (with the same implied threat), despite it being obvious to everyone involved in schools that this was a dangerous and stupid decision that would rapidly have to be reversed.

By lunchtime on January 4th, it was absolutely clear that schools would shut again, and we were all ordered to close with immediate effect at the end of that day.

As a result of this sequence of government actions within a 36 hour period, millions of additional contacts between people and households were made, undoubtedly fuelling the fire of the by then out of control surge in cases.

A few heads refused to open on 4th January, declaring a short-notice additional INSET. Were they right according to the guidance? No. Were they right according to both common sense and epidemiology? Absolutely.

Those heads who, knowing the intake, local circumstances and internal layout of their schools, and the pattern of cases in their community and within the school over the course of the pandemic, decide that masks should be worn in communal areas, or indeed in classrooms, have the right to make decisions to keep their own staff and students safer - and given the government's track record on safety in schools, are more likely to be making the right decisions.

Well said.

I have a lot more confidence in the HTs in my children's schools than the DfE.

I may not always agree with their decisions, but I firmly believe that both HTs (and indeed other teachers and staff) have the children's best interests at heart.

I do not believe this is true of the DfE - there is a lot of evidence (free school meals / lack of laptops etc etc etc) that the DfE does not have children's best interests at heart. At all.

They failed to give any extra money to schools to make them more covid secure. I bet the HTs would have spent the money better than wasting over 1 billion on lateral flow tests that don't work (only 50% accurate, some studies show even less than this).

We’ve not had anything from DS’s school about masks so I will assume he still has to wear them in the classrooms

[quote FriedHam]@singsingbluesilver

If heads genuinely feel they cannot implement government mask policy for moral or other reasons, they should resign.

We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

I am sure that the DfE will take strong action against heads and schools who cannot or will not toe the line on this issue.[/quote]
Like the action they threatened the schools wanting to fo online learning the week week of autumn term.

The legal action which caused our second wave to be more deadly than it needed to be and led to another national lockdown and children being out of school. And the government be8n* forced to publish the data that showed school pupils were up to 7 times more likely to be the index case in a household.

Do you actually have any real idea of what science is, what the scientists are saying and what a risk assessment is designed to do?
If someone deems something high risk they are legally bound to put in measures to lower it.

W*e should be following the rules
*
There is actually no rule or even law that you cannot wear a face mask in school.

Good luck contacting DfE😂

@cantkeepawayforever

We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

ANYONE who says this, or is saying that schools should do exactly what the government says 'because the government must be right' has an extremely short and selective memory.

Remember January 4th 2021, the first day of term for the vast majority of schools.

Before Christmas, schools in areas with devastatingly high levels of Covid infection due to the surging Kent variant tried to move to online learning .... and were threatened with legal action by the Government.

On January 4th, schools were ordered to re-open as normal (with the same implied threat), despite it being obvious to everyone involved in schools that this was a dangerous and stupid decision that would rapidly have to be reversed.

By lunchtime on January 4th, it was absolutely clear that schools would shut again, and we were all ordered to close with immediate effect at the end of that day.

As a result of this sequence of government actions within a 36 hour period, millions of additional contacts between people and households were made, undoubtedly fuelling the fire of the by then out of control surge in cases.

A few heads refused to open on 4th January, declaring a short-notice additional INSET. Were they right according to the guidance? No. Were they right according to both common sense and epidemiology? Absolutely.

Those heads who, knowing the intake, local circumstances and internal layout of their schools, and the pattern of cases in their community and within the school over the course of the pandemic, decide that masks should be worn in communal areas, or indeed in classrooms, have the right to make decisions to keep their own staff and students safer - and given the government's track record on safety in schools, are more likely to be making the right decisions.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Quoted it because it needs saying over and over

Do you know what I'd like to see? Some actual data. Not just schools do this or that. Some data showing how masks have stopped spread. How about some data on contacts in school that had to isolate - how many of those contacts actually went on the contract covid themselves? Were masks at play in stopping them getting it etc. For me I'm happy my daughter's school have said they're stopping using them for now, figures are good here and as a community we are very compliant with SD etc so a sensible choice. However, again I'd love to see some data. Have they helped? And if so, how much?

@palacegirl77

Do you know what I'd like to see? Some actual data. Not just schools do this or that. Some data showing how masks have stopped spread. How about some data on contacts in school that had to isolate - how many of those contacts actually went on the contract covid themselves? Were masks at play in stopping them getting it etc. For me I'm happy my daughter's school have said they're stopping using them for now, figures are good here and as a community we are very compliant with SD etc so a sensible choice. However, again I'd love to see some data. Have they helped? And if so, how much?

Unfortuntely, good data in schools is very hard to come by - because there has been an active choice not to collect it.

It is also hard to measure a negative: we know that there have been many fewer outbreaks in schools since the re-opening with masks, but many factors have changed simultaneously (masks, testing, community infection levels) so isolating the contribution of each factor is hard.

IIt is, however, notable that - in contrast to the Autumn term - positivity rates in secondary school age pupils (ONS data) are very similar to those in primary. In the Autumn term, rates in secondary school age pupils was much higher than in primary. When comparing the mitigation measures in the two types of settings, while primary has the advantage of smaller 'bubbles', secondary has had masks and testing this term but primary has not. The two in combination do seem to have had at least some effect -0 but as i say, it is hard to dissect out the role of each. As tests are done at home (and are hard to enforce) whereas masks are in school (and can be enforced), i suspect compliance with mask wearing is probably higher than testing as the weeks have gone on, but that is theorising ahead of the data.

Apologies for the atrocious grammar in that.

It is irrevelant what has happened - decisions made by individual schools is not based on all the evidence , since when is a head better informed than SAGE - what's more it then means that other schools are bounced into similar courses of actions. We either have a rule for masks across schools that says wear a mask or one that says don't

For me the issue with some schools continuing to use masks actually disables the ability to see if there is a pattern - if cases rise, no doubt people will say its to do with kids NOT wearing masks, when actually that data won't be there to say how many are/aren't. It would be far easier if the guidelines were adhered to for data to be produced and analysed. The other issue is that removing a factor (mask use) at the exact same time as allowing households to meet indoors etc will again lead to data being difficult to interpret when cases go up.

absolute joke

Lancashire are forcing masks in schools - both classrooms and corridors for all pupils and teachers

so my town of 8 cases per 100,000 has this now until at least June 21st they say

Who the hell is in charge here its a piss take

I wonder what the legal basis is for the decision making
I’d call it common sense abs a willingness to protect those that haven’t been vaccinated yet such as teachers and other school staff. If parents can’t see that, they’re clearly selfish.

since when is a head better informed than SAGE
Was it SAGE who requested that masks be removed from schools?

I don't think labelling people as selfish as they are obeying the law is helpful

@Watapalava

absolute joke

Lancashire are forcing masks in schools - both classrooms and corridors for all pupils and teachers

so my town of 8 cases per 100,000 has this now until at least June 21st they say

Who the hell is in charge here its a piss take

Don't you think prevention is the better strategy? After living through 2 waves now, where cases rose to the extent that lockdowns were the only way to manage them, it would be sensible to maintain masks in the hope that it helps. I'd have thought we understood now how this virus can exponentially grow and get out of control rapidly. 8 cases per 100000 is much easier to control with track and trace etc than 100 per 100000. Secondary schools have been back in full for a couple of months with masks and has not affected the overall cases dropping so why change that now?

No they are waste of time. Kids constantly touching them - i know my own teens will wear same mask for a week - no one cares. I'm more angry that they have ignored the gov recommendation. Its like they pick and choose when to follow rules

My area has been open without masks when cases have been over 1000 per 100,000. Hardy any bubbles burst and the local council vaccinated all the town school staff 7 weeks ago. All of them.

@twelly

I don't think labelling people as selfish as they are obeying the law is helpful

It isn't law.

since when is a head better informed than SAGE

As many posts have stated, SAGE warned AGAINST the removal of masks.

There's a strange correlation here between people who want masks removed and those who can't fucking read.

My child's secondary required masks from October half term. It still requires masks, compulsory in communal areas, teachers discretion in classroom... Many teachers have yet to be vaccinated... Perhaps if they sorted that out...

@twelly

It is irrevelant what has happened - decisions made by individual schools is not based on all the evidence , since when is a head better informed than SAGE - what's more it then means that other schools are bounced into similar courses of actions. We either have a rule for masks across schools that says wear a mask or one that says don't

SAGE has recommended keeping masks in schools.

The Government - who also opened schools for a single day on January 4th, contributing to the already surging number of cases at that time - has defied SAGE to recommend their removal.

Heads and SAGE - I think I'd support their views much more than the government's, personally.

If your teen wears the same mask for a week that's as much a parenting fail as if they wore the same socks for a week.

hardly

Masks are waste of time

Just there to appease the 'worried well' and the increasing amount of people with health anxiety

@Watapalava

hardly

Masks are waste of time

Just there to appease the 'worried well' and the increasing amount of people with health anxiety

Can you point me to the research that shows that masks have no effect?

My understanding was that all the literature shows them not to be perfect, but to have a measurable impact on transmission of Covid?

i know my own teens will wear same mask for a week

That's just gross. Would you let them wear the same pair of pants for a week?

@Feenie
There's a strange correlation here between people who want masks removed and those who can't fucking read.
Totally agree. The same people need to get back to school and educate themselves.