School still requiring masks in communal areas

[TheFuckThatIGave]

We've just had letters today from both ds's schools saying that following discussions amongst area heads, all secondaries in the area will still be requiring students to wear face masks in communal areas from Monday, exempt students aside. This is directly contrary to the DfE guidance this week. Anyone else had similar?

OK. Lets watch this space. I very much doubt that any head will lose their job if the retain a mask in communal areas policy.

The 'moral or other reasons' they have to insist o masks would include the health and safety of unvaccinated staff and students. Which of course they do have a legal obligation to uphold.

There isn't a line to toe, no commands or edicts. It's a change in recommendations. That's it and the DfE has way better things to be doing.

To my knowledge, something that could get a Head in actual trouble and is actually serious enough to judge on is how they follow local Public Health team says on the issue. It's kinda their job, with training requirements and everything, to advise schools on health issues and how to handle them. The change in recommendation is taken into consideration, but no national guideline can take in all local variables - different areas have different risks and concerns, that's why we have local Public Health teams and why they should be supported.

If heads genuinely feel they cannot implement government mask policy for moral or other reasons, they should resign.

Or just follow their own area’s public health authority. Look at your own U4T - even they say this is fine. You are an outlier making a royal arse of yourself. Even they will disown your posts.

I find it odd that schools are now making decisions at odds with national policy - surely given the lockdown was national with a directive from central govenrment and masks were mandatory now the rules have changed all schools should comply. Some schools clearly feel they can decide themselves - when the whole point is that it is a national policy. I do not think schools should have the power in these instances given that the road map out of lockdown and restrictions has been so well publicised

Just shows that the dfe is not fit for purpose. We've now got a situation where there is no consistency with LAs and individual schools making their own judgements. Terrible decision to give them any control of public health matters.

@twelly

I find it odd that schools are now making decisions at odds with national policy - surely given the lockdown was national with a directive from central govenrment and masks were mandatory now the rules have changed all schools should comply. Some schools clearly feel they can decide themselves - when the whole point is that it is a national policy. I do not think schools should have the power in these instances given that the road map out of lockdown and restrictions has been so well publicised

Schools should have the right to increase the protection for their staff and pupils. It’s crazy that masks are being ditched now, reportedly against the scientific advice from sage.

Some schools clearly feel they can decide themselves

RTFT

*We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

Good grief FriedHam

You are being ridiculous.
HTs following the advice of scientists, and public health specialists seems a much more sensible route to me than listening to politicians at any point, but particularly the politicians that have mishandled the situation so badly throughout.

Interesting that those people who were so keen for everyone to follow the rule now want schools to not follow rules - that is hypocritical. We either have clear rules which we follow or we don't. Personally I have followed the rules even though I disagree with it and will be following the new rules which I do agree with. Schools should be following the rules - the argument about protection is scraemongering

We either have clear rules which we follow or we don't

Okay, brilliant. I’m going to follow Public Health and SAGE’s rules - you?

Ours is keeping them in corridors but not in classrooms until half term due to a rise in local cases. Very glad they are now out of the classroom as my children were struggling with wearing them from 8-4 everyday (40min bus journey each way too).

@FriedHam
We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

Well said @FriedHam

My DS school is still wearing masks in lessons and public areas up until half term. They don't want to put the children taking exams at risk.
I think it's quite sensible really.

We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

And yet you are apparently happy with a situation where politicians with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like public pressure or emotions?

Head teachers and governing boards are ultimately responsible for health and safety in schools. By choosing to follow the science, they are fulfilling that responsibility. If only the government would do the same...

I still can't get my head around the fact that from Monday, when I go to use photocopier, I will be the only person having to wear a mask yet surrounded by 20+ 18 year old young men and women as it's in the year 13 breakout area. Mandatory for staff but not them. Makes no sense.

The rules are bizarre - I personally think that we should not wear masks and that they give visible reassurance rather than real protection. That said I will and do follow the rules, my issue is with individual schools overriding government policy, they are in no better position to judge what is the best course of action. The argument that they need to protect the Childers/staff just dies not hold water - all schools and colleges seem to do that, also when one makes a decision to be cautious others are put under pressure. My view is follow the government rules

@BarefootHippieChick

Interesting, our secondary are making them optional which means pretty much no one will wear them, although they have said they will reintroduce if local outbreaks get severe again.

Ours too.

@FriedHam

This goes against DFE guidance and I'd hope the government will come down hard on schools and LAs doing this.

I would support masks remaining in place in communal areas only in areas with very high covid rates. On the basis that this was reviewed on a daily basis by local directors of public health.

And yet those over 12 have to continue to wear masks in shops and on transport.

I heard an advert the other day on the radio that said 'schools and workplaces' at the end of it. Ffs schools are workplaces. Yet again teachers are being thrown to the wolves with the best mitigation they had, masks in classrooms, being taken away.

It's criminal.

It shouldn't be legal for the DFE to issue guidance to schools which is not based on the views of SAGE and PHE tbh.

Our whole system of governance has broken down. UK is in a massive mess, we have a corrupt and inept government, systematically weakened public services, misinformation all over social media, and a cynical public getting angry.

If there were recommendations and schools chose to do LESS than those recommendations, they could face difficulties further down the line. I can’t think of any schools that would put themselves in that position.

It is different to take a more cautious approach. And given Boris’ announcement on Friday, for schools to be more cautious could hardly be surprising at this stage.

It is still a requirement that masks are worn on buses etc. They are close contact, indoors and year groups mix and if public transport, so do the public. Lots of schools are going with the no masks in classrooms, but communal areas, returning to the pre-Jan model. It’s where there is most mingling and diff outlying in keeping people apart. There are short bursts of when this happens and it’s not a significant inconvenience. Why not as a middle ground ...which might then lead later to masks going...or returning if the Indian variant spreads.

Where we are, in classrooms it is optional for teachers and students. Teachers remain 2m away from the kids in classrooms and that will continue. Most teachers (including the younger unvaccinated ones) seem pleased to be removing them for teaching. Having the choice to continue wearing seems a good idea, and for kids who would prefer to wear them too. It will be interesting to see how many choose to continue wearing in class.

We have found that in this recent phase, mask wearing has been simple. Because it has been all of the time indoors, there haven’t been grey areas and compliance has been pretty much 100%. Returning to the approach of just in communal area as is harder in a sense as there is lots of inning and outti ng of rooms and communal areas and so more taking on and off and chance to forget or ‘forget’.

Why is it that some of you seem to object to strongly to your kids being asked to wear them for the few minutes in corridors? Do you have lots of objections to the things the Head in your child’s school sets rules on, so is this reaction part if that general objection to them deciding things that apply to your child or is it a specific Covid issue?

I think keeping them in communal areas is sensible but I’m relieved they are no longer required for classrooms.

I would support teachers who wanted to keep them, though.

We cannot have a situation where individual heads with no scientific background or training are making irrational decisions based on factors like union pressure or emotions.

ANYONE who says this, or is saying that schools should do exactly what the government says 'because the government must be right' has an extremely short and selective memory.

Remember January 4th 2021, the first day of term for the vast majority of schools.

Before Christmas, schools in areas with devastatingly high levels of Covid infection due to the surging Kent variant tried to move to online learning .... and were threatened with legal action by the Government.

On January 4th, schools were ordered to re-open as normal (with the same implied threat), despite it being obvious to everyone involved in schools that this was a dangerous and stupid decision that would rapidly have to be reversed.

By lunchtime on January 4th, it was absolutely clear that schools would shut again, and we were all ordered to close with immediate effect at the end of that day.

As a result of this sequence of government actions within a 36 hour period, millions of additional contacts between people and households were made, undoubtedly fuelling the fire of the by then out of control surge in cases.

A few heads refused to open on 4th January, declaring a short-notice additional INSET. Were they right according to the guidance? No. Were they right according to both common sense and epidemiology? Absolutely.

Those heads who, knowing the intake, local circumstances and internal layout of their schools, and the pattern of cases in their community and within the school over the course of the pandemic, decide that masks should be worn in communal areas, or indeed in classrooms, have the right to make decisions to keep their own staff and students safer - and given the government's track record on safety in schools, are more likely to be making the right decisions.

Tell you what I am getting passed off with people moaning about what schools do. We have been working and it is high time businesses stopped using Covid as an excuse. We are getting shit customer service from exams boards, dfe, and other businesses whinging on about being Covid secure and wfh bollocks.

[quote FriedHam]@Feenie

Masks are only recommended (ie optional) in schools at the moment.

Nothing will change in that regard, except that the benefits of masks no longer outweigh the substantial harms to learning and communication. They will therefore no longer be recommended in schools.

Schools that try to unilaterally go against the new policy will find themselves very quickly on a shaky wicket.

I would certainly report any local schools requiring masks to the DfE and I would expect strong action to be taken against them, up to and including dismissal of the head.[/quote]
Now I know you're actually just on a wind up.

Nobody has that sad a life they need to stalk local schools, be emailing the DfE and demanding heads being sacked.

Or maybe you do. So I would suggest you find yourself a useful hobby