Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

[Whichjab]

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

Thank you @AppleJane, that's a lovely thing to say.

I'm absolutely pro-vax, but if a particular vaccine carries a greater risk to the recipient than the virus it's supposed to protect them from, there's a problem there!

It's horrific to lose someone to covid, but it's equally horrific to lose someone to a blood clot.

Minimax just to clarify it is not "every death post vaccination" otherwise we would all eventually end up on the list. There is at the very least a proximate link. Also there will be far more symptoms than cases listed as many of the reported individuals will have multiple side effects.

Now this is an actual conspiracy theory.

Do you think Pfizer and Moderna are having the same issues, but that health authorities around the world are all deliberately covering it up? Or that they're making up the AZ clots? Which is it?

Naturally I don’t believe in any such conspiracy (although some posters on here should, by rights, as there were numerous comments on these boards before vaccination started about how there was no way they were going to have the Pfizer vaccine because as well as being new technology “they’re not to be trusted, don’t you know they’ve been sued several times?”)

Ironic though that there are a number of posters on this thread and others insisting that the MHRA is “hiding” data, “sitting on the facts” and similar. But obviously that’s not a conspiracy theory.

Bother, my local centre has text me to book an appointment. Had only access to national websites ones until now and feel I must take it.

@Chocolategirl19791 good luck, the last few weeks it’s been released late afternoon.

@MrsFezziwig yes agreed though I think it’s just general panic / misinterpretation.

We should remember the matter at hand is VITT so we should keep focused on those incidents and not worry about people who fell down a sinkhole the week after their jab!

From my side... several friends same age (40 or nearly 40) have had Pfizer this week so feeling a bit bummed out that I’m now angsting about dose 2 of AZ. Trying to remind myself that I was lucky to have it in Feb and quite possibly avoided Covid during second wave as a result. Sigh.

They only have one local date avaliable and it's not on the day I can do.

I had Moderna this morning and it felt a bit like a secret society of AZ avoiders - they were clearly very used to people travelling from all over London (to Islington BDC - the professor running the centre has been tweeting about them doing Moderna for a couple of weeks now). The nurse even said to me in the pre-jab check (unprompted) that there are no blood clot concerns with Moderna.

Really pleased to have had it, didn't feel the jab at all and everyone was lovely. It's been a few hours now and feeling great so far.

@nordica

I had Moderna this morning and it felt a bit like a secret society of AZ avoiders - they were clearly very used to people travelling from all over London (to Islington BDC - the professor running the centre has been tweeting about them doing Moderna for a couple of weeks now). The nurse even said to me in the pre-jab check (unprompted) that there are no blood clot concerns with Moderna.

Really pleased to have had it, didn't feel the jab at all and everyone was lovely. It's been a few hours now and feeling great so far.

Happy for you! I got mine there on Monday. I travelled from Kent. Everybody was lovely, although it was busy and took about 75 minutes. Apart from a sore arm and a bit of a muzzy head the following morning I’ve had no side effects.

@Iceniii

I do find it odd that during lockdown, many MNs were anti lockdown, and wanted to only lockdown the older generation, as they thought they were selfish expecting us to lockdown. They therefore didn't see Covid as a big theat. But now if people don't have one particular vaccine pushed on them, they are likely to die from Covid.

Yeh, everyone is telling me I am probably going to die now, but prior to the vaccine campaign it was largely unthinkable. It's strange how to dialogue shifts.

However, most of us don't need scare stories to tempt us into having AZ - we were desperate to get vaccinated. My only real reservations involve how it is being carried out. I can't see why it would hurt giving some of us more concerned folks a choice to have Pfizer.
I doubt it would kill me, but a LOT of those reported issues on the side effect list are a problem for me, personally.

One way or another, I am going to have to get a jab very soon, will try my luck this week!

My GP finally rang me back and without query or questioning booked me into a Pfizer clinic next week. Hoorah

The latest report is out.

262 cases and 51 deaths in total, so a small increase since last week (an additional 10 cases and 2 deaths).

It's good that it's a smaller increase than each of the last two weeks, I wonder what's driving that.

@Cherrycee

The latest report is out.

262 cases and 51 deaths in total, so a small increase since last week (an additional 10 cases and 2 deaths).

It's good that it's a smaller increase than each of the last two weeks, I wonder what's driving that.

It’s 20 more cases and 2 deaths I think. Good news that they seem to be reducing the mortality rate.

I suspect they are finding less historical cases now, which supports the German view that it’s actually not very age based.

They’ve also slowed down the number of first doses given recently, which will play a part.

Looking at the numbers they gave 700,000 first doses of AZ in the week to 5th May and they had 18 new incidents (2 were after second doses, which is now a total of 8). So incidence rate was 1 in 39,000 in that age group (mid to late 40s?) presuming no historical cases.

20 new cases, 8 of which were in the 40-49 age group, so it looks like this may be data coming through from the wave of 40-49 year olds being vaccinated in late March or early April.

In the past few weeks the number of first AZ jabs given was between 600-800k a week. Someone will probably come along to do some number crunching soon, but my guess is the case rate per 100,000 doses given as we understand it now for this age group may go up slightly and perhaps less than we feared.

Does anyone know if the Winton Centre's risk benefit graph gets updated every week?

It’s 20 more cases and 2 deaths I think. Good news that they seem to be reducing the mortality rate.

You're right, for some reason I had 252 in my head.

It's a ridiculous state of affairs now. People need to be given a choice. For all those who don't want AZ there are those who are desperate for any vaccination. Without any age threshold. I was lucky and got offered Pfizer a few weeks ago. I'm pretty determined to stick with Pfizer now and will not be accepting any vaccine for my second dose / boosters.

@Schulte

20 new cases, 8 of which were in the 40-49 age group, so it looks like this may be data coming through from the wave of 40-49 year olds being vaccinated in late March or early April.

In the past few weeks the number of first AZ jabs given was between 600-800k a week. Someone will probably come along to do some number crunching soon, but my guess is the case rate per 100,000 doses given as we understand it now for this age group may go up slightly and perhaps less than we feared.

Does anyone know if the Winton Centre's risk benefit graph gets updated every week?

If the incidents are from vaccinations in early April surely the vast majority of 40-49 year olds are not within the window yet. My husband and I were only vaccinated within the last 10 days (41 & 43).

Oh, you're right @IndigoC - I was trying to remember when bookings opened for 45+ and I think that was early April?

@Schulte

Oh, you're right *@IndigoC* - I was trying to remember when bookings opened for 45+ and I think that was early April?

I might be wrong but I thought it was more like week commencing 26 April? Booking for 40 was 30 April (as that's when I originally booked in) and I'm sure I remember thinking at the time that at the start of the week they were on the 45s. I could well be misremembering though

@Schulte

Oh, you're right *@IndigoC* - I was trying to remember when bookings opened for 45+ and I think that was early April?

45+ were invited on the 13th April it seems (did a Google).

Once you allow 10-15 days for VITT to start and then a week or two for reporting it makes sense that some but not all 45+ might be covered by this report. But no idea how efficiently they’re processing cases into the data. Lag could be long.

Thank you @IndigoC - seems I was wrong indeed!

@NotSoLongGoodbye

It's a ridiculous state of affairs now. People need to be given a choice. For all those who don't want AZ there are those who are desperate for any vaccination. Without any age threshold. I was lucky and got offered Pfizer a few weeks ago. I'm pretty determined to stick with Pfizer now and will not be accepting any vaccine for my second dose / boosters.

Given that healthy people in their late 30s are now eligible there probably aren't many people who are "desperate for any vaccination". Most people would prefer Pfizer or Moderna at the moment so if there is a choice then that's what people will choose. Much younger people will not get a choice if that is the policy as they are the last to get vaccinated. If people in their 40s think the risk is too great for them even though they will benefit why should teenagers or people in their early 20s who almost all have very mild Covid symptoms be expected to take the risk?

@Belladonna12 Given we appear to have sufficient supply to cover every remaining adult with an mRNA vaccine why would we continue to take the risk of using AZ for anyone’s first dose? Especially say a 40 year old, who may be born within months of the government’s arbitrary and likely inaccurate line in the sand?