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Original poster

Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

981 replies

Whichjab · 06/05/2021 21:50

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

OP posts:
AppleJane · 10/05/2021 08:05

Yes @Schulte this week's data is the one likely to show a pattern (not that we are intelligent enough to interpret data mind Grin)

Schulte · 10/05/2021 08:41
Smile
Walkaround · 10/05/2021 08:41

It can simultaneously be reasonable for some people to wait to have their vaccine until they can avoid AZ and for AZ only to be available to most people coming forward now, you know. You have always been free to choose your risks - wait and take the covid risks, or don’t wait because you don’t fancy being unprotected in your situation when Johnson is intent on opening everything up regardless, now he has offered everyone the vaccine. I haven’t seen anyone on here fail to acknowledge that some people will have to, and have already had to, take the risk of the AZ vaccine to get out of the pandemic. This obsession with trying to prove the calculations of those who disagree with you are deliberately and murderously wrong, by misusing figures that don’t give you the data you need, and trying to work out how much vaccine of each type is being delivered and how many people of which age are dying is entirely unnecessary in your quest to wait until you can get a different vaccine. Why take it to the level of telling people who had to have a vaccine you do not want, have not even had and nobody ever forced you to have, that they should never have been offered it?

Schulte · 10/05/2021 08:43

Just putting this link here again as it’s so useful, data from Europe on risks of clot vs Covid risks for various scenarios:

www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/chmp-annex/annex-vaxzevria-art53-visual-risk-contextualisation_en.pdf

Schulte · 10/05/2021 08:49

Well @Walkaround, the EMA is not misusing figures that it doesn’t have, yet the document that I just linked to clearly says that in some situations your risk of developing a clot is higher than your risk of dying from Covid. It’s not wrong to question the UK’s position on this. Luckily they have made at least one move in the right direction. We’re all glad the under 40s are getting an alternative, are we not?

Walkaround · 10/05/2021 09:16

@Schulte - the EU isn’t led by Johnson. So far as I’m concerned, it is evident from past history that Johnson will open up society in accordance with his road map regardless of the covid situation, even though the road map was dependent on the vaccine programme going to plan. It is entirely sensible, imvho, to want to protect yourself from Boris Johnson by taking a tiny risk with the AZ vaccine. I do not think he controls MRHS decisions, but a risk-benefit analysis that does not take into account the reality in the country you live in is a poor risk-benefit analysis. The UK has its own specific covid history.

Walkaround · 10/05/2021 09:16

*MHRA

Schulte · 10/05/2021 09:20

That's where you are coming from, @Walkaround! I sympathise fully with wanting to protect yourself from Boris.

FergoMcFergFace · 10/05/2021 09:22

Wow. That's really illuminating, @schulte. Thanks for posting.

I'm 43 and cancelled my vaccination yesterday because I knew it would be AZ at the pharmacy delivering it, and booked with my GP on the basis it might be one of the others.

I feel guilty for being so hesitant. A couple of weeks ago I would have gladly taken a punt on any of the vaccines, but those figures don't persuade me that the benefits outweigh the risks, especially when you look at data specifically for women in the 40-49 age group.

Not sure what I'll do if they're offering AZ at my appointment.

Walkaround · 10/05/2021 09:23

@Schulte - Grin

LondonWFuck · 10/05/2021 09:27

@FergoMcFergFace

Wow. That's really illuminating, *@schulte*. Thanks for posting.

I'm 43 and cancelled my vaccination yesterday because I knew it would be AZ at the pharmacy delivering it, and booked with my GP on the basis it might be one of the others.

I feel guilty for being so hesitant. A couple of weeks ago I would have gladly taken a punt on any of the vaccines, but those figures don't persuade me that the benefits outweigh the risks, especially when you look at data specifically for women in the 40-49 age group.

Not sure what I'll do if they're offering AZ at my appointment.

@FergoMcFergFace I am 40 and I declined AZ yesterday. I have rebooked this morning (not had my confirmation text yet) for a date upon which they told me at the vaccination place they would be giving out Pfizer. I hope it all works out, and for you as well! Just wanted to let you know, you are not the only one!
Walkaround · 10/05/2021 09:28

I personally am pleased to have had the opportunity to protect myself from Boris sooner rather than later, even though I did have to take the small risk of another clot.

FergoMcFergFace · 10/05/2021 09:35

That's great, @LondonWFuck! I'm glad they were able and happy to tell you when they'd have the Pfizer.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one wrangling over this. I don't think we're being unreasonable. Good luck for vaccine day!

EducatingArti · 10/05/2021 09:50

@Schulte

That's where you are coming from, *@Walkaround*! I sympathise fully with wanting to protect yourself from Boris.
Wait, what ...? There's a vaccine that protects you from Boris? Where do I get it?😁
bumbleymummy · 10/05/2021 09:53

[quote Walkaround]@Schulte - the EU isn’t led by Johnson. So far as I’m concerned, it is evident from past history that Johnson will open up society in accordance with his road map regardless of the covid situation, even though the road map was dependent on the vaccine programme going to plan. It is entirely sensible, imvho, to want to protect yourself from Boris Johnson by taking a tiny risk with the AZ vaccine. I do not think he controls MRHS decisions, but a risk-benefit analysis that does not take into account the reality in the country you live in is a poor risk-benefit analysis. The UK has its own specific covid history.[/quote]
Do you think the vaccine program isn’t going to plan? We’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable groups - most have had their two doses now. And we’ve seen a reduction in hospitalisations and deaths. What else did you think the vaccine program was meant to achieve?

Belladonna12 · 10/05/2021 10:10

@AppleJane

I did have a choice and I would prefer it if everybody had a choice.

@Belladonna12 it's noted that you have called me a hypocrite. What I don't understand about your statement above is, do you mean you haven't had AZ? Do you mean you live in a place where you didn't have to or are of an age where you could choose?

If you're going to throw around accusations you at least should be honest about that.

Perhaps you should read my posts before "throwing accusations around" about me being dishonest. Above I said I have had both AZ vaccinations ages ago. That is because of my job. The second one was in March. I'm not sure how that is relevant to anything though.
Chocolategirl19791 · 10/05/2021 10:27

I left the vaccine centre with morning without one after it was AZ. They were dismissive of my concerns and just sat her crying. I'd made my decision before I went but Italy second guessing it now. I'm sure if I try again it'll be the same scenario...

Belladonna12 · 10/05/2021 10:35

@Chocolategirl19791

I left the vaccine centre with morning without one after it was AZ. They were dismissive of my concerns and just sat her crying. I'd made my decision before I went but Italy second guessing it now. I'm sure if I try again it'll be the same scenario...
It probably will be the same scenario as they will be sticking to the guidance. I would wait a bit as policies may change when they get more alternatives.
NotSoLongGoodbye · 10/05/2021 10:37

@Chocolategirl19791
That's the problem isn't it? The being dismissive of concerns rather than having a proper debate about potential side effects however rare.

And it's all very well people trotting out the statistic that you are more likely to get clots from Covid - but what type of clots are the Covid clots? Were these in healthy people with no underlying conditions or of a healthy weight? What was the outcome for these people? If this information is out there can people let me know where it is.

Personally I think the governments need to move away from AZ moving forward. For me the side effects are unacceptable.

LondonWFuck · 10/05/2021 10:39

@Chocolategirl19791

I left the vaccine centre with morning without one after it was AZ. They were dismissive of my concerns and just sat her crying. I'd made my decision before I went but Italy second guessing it now. I'm sure if I try again it'll be the same scenario...
That such a shame. I had the opposite experience yesterday. Could you phone your GP as they may have info on which places are offering alternatives?
Belladonna12 · 10/05/2021 10:41

[quote NotSoLongGoodbye]@Chocolategirl19791
That's the problem isn't it? The being dismissive of concerns rather than having a proper debate about potential side effects however rare.

And it's all very well people trotting out the statistic that you are more likely to get clots from Covid - but what type of clots are the Covid clots? Were these in healthy people with no underlying conditions or of a healthy weight? What was the outcome for these people? If this information is out there can people let me know where it is.

Personally I think the governments need to move away from AZ moving forward. For me the side effects are unacceptable.[/quote]
People at the vaccination centre are busy vaccinating and are following the protocols they have been given. They are going to want to spend time "debating".

Belladonna12 · 10/05/2021 10:43

That should be "they are not going to want to spend time debatinh.

Chocolategirl19791 · 10/05/2021 10:43

@LondonWFuck I wish. We're in Scotland and our health board have 2 super centres only for accidents locations and they're both the same. They had both there but you were routed based on age so I fear if I book again it'll be the same story. My 39 year old husband got Pfizer because he's deemed not to have risk:benefit from AZ but I'm years older and female but it's fine for me.

AppleJane · 10/05/2021 10:50

@Schulte

That's where you are coming from, *@Walkaround*! I sympathise fully with wanting to protect yourself from Boris.

😂😂

AppleJane · 10/05/2021 10:55

Perhaps you should read my posts

After calling me a hypocrite @Belladonna12 I'm not interested in reading your posts or engaging any further with you. I'll be back when the data is released again so... see you next Thursday.