Under 40 will be offered an alternative vaccine

[CovidHalloween]

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-astrazeneca-blood-clots-cases-latest-b1842455.html

They made sure they waited until all 40s have been jabbed until they released this piece of news.

I’m still grateful for my jab nevertheless.
In other news, many cluster of Indian variant are scattered across the country and about to become a variant of concern, but of course they buried this news because its Election Day today. I’m fed up of this mess and this reactive nonsense. Why not be proactive and make sure our border defences were more robust. It’s like I told you so?! Who would have guessed?!

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/06/new-concerns-indian-covid-variant-clusters-found-across-england-ongoing-risk-high

I understand worrying about small risks and I do it a lot but what I don’t understand is why everyone is so obsessed with debating the risks of the vaccine versus the risk of the pill. Both of these are tiny risks compared to other risks I assume you’re taking every day OP - like, I assume you are still getting in a car for example?

Sorry, I posted the above on the wrong thread but my comment is fairly valid for this threat too!

Almost all of the clots have been after the first dose

My Nan is currently on her way home from
Hospital after getting a blood clot 20 days after her second AZ vaccination.

The doctor didn’t even want to draw a connection that she pointed out she had the vaccine nearly 3 weeks ago.

I doubt it’ll get reported, like many others. It’s real life, it’s happening and certainly more than I understood.

@joanneg36 I agree with what you’ve said, but suspect you should take cover from the “car crashes aren’t infective” and “but mutant variants” brigades.

@FTEngineerM

Almost all of the clots have been after the first dose

My Nan is currently on her way home from
Hospital after getting a blood clot 20 days after her second AZ vaccination.

The doctor didn’t even want to draw a connection that she pointed out she had the vaccine nearly 3 weeks ago.

I doubt it’ll get reported, like many others. It’s real life, it’s happening and certainly more than I understood.

You could yellow card that for her.

@QueenStromba can I?! I did not know that. Thank you!

We’ve all been stressing over the GPs response; they didn’t even suggest clot at the appointment she went to A&E herself later (with family obviously).

[quote FTEngineerM]@QueenStromba can I?! I did not know that. Thank you!

We’ve all been stressing over the GPs response; they didn’t even suggest clot at the appointment she went to A&E herself later (with family obviously).[/quote]
A 'normal' clot or VITT? Obviously neither are good

[quote FTEngineerM]@QueenStromba can I?! I did not know that. Thank you!

We’ve all been stressing over the GPs response; they didn’t even suggest clot at the appointment she went to A&E herself later (with family obviously).[/quote]
Yeah, you don't need to be be a doctor or anything. I'm glad your family took better care of her than her GP!

@whataballbag I only know it was in her leg, nothing more technical than that (unless that’s enough?)

I’m not belittling the fear of the risk, I get that. It was a genuine question about whether everyone is weighing up risk this way in all other areas of their lives - eg risk of DVT from flying, risk of heart attack from eating fatty foods etc. And I suspect not. Because it is very hard to be rational about risk when one particular risk is dominating the news and our lives.

I think it depends @joanneg36 as in your example the risk of harm from eating fatty foods is from multiple episodes of overeating fatty foods over a prolonged period. This isn’t multiple episodes is it, it’s one moment, one vaccine, one decision. It’s not the same.

@joanneg36

I’m not belittling the fear of the risk, I get that. It was a genuine question about whether everyone is weighing up risk this way in all other areas of their lives - eg risk of DVT from flying, risk of heart attack from eating fatty foods etc. And I suspect not. Because it is very hard to be rational about risk when one particular risk is dominating the news and our lives.

The problem is you can do things to minimise that risk.

The only thing you can do to mitigate the risk of a VITT is not have the vaccine.

[quote Tryingtryingandtrying]@beguilingeyes My understanding is that because they affect the brain they are not as easily treatable as DVTs for example. Looks like 75% are surviving. Approx.[/quote]
Today I had my first AZ and the nurse told me that they now know there is a delay between the symptoms and the clotting being life threatening so if you seek immediate treatment on experiencing symptoms then you can be treated in time.

I genuinely am quite risk-averse in general. Ultimately I think for me it comes down to choice, though. I can decide to order a Dominos or eat a salad instead. I can choose the safer walk home in the dark and not the short cut through the wooded area. There are some airlines I would avoid flying with although I have family abroad so I'm not going to never visit them even if staying home may be safer.

And just because I take some risks doesn't mean I'm just going to throw caution to the wind and take lots of other risks if there is a safer choice available.

@joanneg36 I think the pill comparison comes from the fact that both can involve clots, albeit different types. It's not a comparison I've used personally.

I think with regards to your question on how people weigh up risk, my personal frustration with the AZ situation is that it doesn't have to be used. I posted on threads in the first week of April when data was presented by government on the risk of covid by age vs risk of clots by age. As if no other vaccine is available.

It's also the feeling of helplessness. I can't continue to live the way I have lived with covid precautions. I am by nature risk averse (still washing my shopping) and it's not sustainable. Hence I did feel forced into the AZ vaccine but am deeply deeply unhappy about it.

Thinking about the odds... the risk in your 40s is 1 in 100,000, roughly the capacity of Wembley Stadium, so imagine you were at the stadium. I think of it this way, if presented with something awesome, like being told one of you in there would win a million quid, I'd think it's a slim chance, but it's got to be one of us, and that could be me. Equally if you said come to this event at Wembley [aka have the vaccine] but at least one person in the audience will definitely die, would you go?

Ah, not sure how this leaves me now, I am 42 and due my first jab next week at a surgery hub. The day I am going they are doing 2nd jab Pfizers. I picked that day as I thought my chances were higher to get Pfizer, but if they now have to hold them back for under 40's and 2nd jabs I am not sure what I will get. It said on my automated text "for pfizer" but that might change now. Does anyone know if local hubs dish out both vaccines on a single day or do they only keep 1 per different day ?

The Wembley stadium comparison is a good one because when you put it like that, it sounds scary, but the fact is that we all do make choices every day - things we could choose not to do - but choose to do and risk death. Getting in a car is the most obvious, or on a plane, but there are others. Giving birth is another major one. Having an epidural or a c section. Getting toxic shock from tampons. Getting listeria from unpasteurised cheese. Being killed by a random gunman whilst on holiday in the US. Yes, things like fatty foods and smoking feel less risky because they’re not immediate but I can guarantee that over time I have given myself a greater risk of death from diabetes/heart disease due to eating too much sugar than I have from getting vaccinated.

Or, here’s another stat: approx 1 in 250k people die running marathons and 1 in 60k in triathlons. Does this put people off doing the above - it should do, because there’s literally zero need to do a triathlon, unlike getting a vaccine. It doesn’t put them off because they think ‘the odds are overwhelmingly in my favour, hopefully I’ll be fine.’

I get that in the vaccine situation, the argument is ‘I can have another vaccine’. But I don’t understand why people who think the govt is conspiring to keep AZ data hidden isn’t also lying about some awful side effects from the other jabs.

Hmm still not sure I get your comparisons. Are people kept in isolation unless they run a marathon/triathlon?

Is the country put into lockdown until everyone able does a marathon?

They’re absolutely not the same thing😬. Whilst I don’t think there’s a conspiracy, it’s just early days nobody knows anything it seems. So if someone wants to be cautious, because of a lack of data then that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

[quote FTEngineerM]@whataballbag I only know it was in her leg, nothing more technical than that (unless that’s enough?)[/quote]
The specific clot related to the vaccine is in the brain (different type to the leg), which is probably why the doctors didn’t feel there was a connection. Having said that, there’s nothing to stop you reporting it via yellow card if you want to.

@LondonWFuck I meant I am 41. I'm not any more likely to die from covid as I was when I was 39 or 40 but just as likely to be affected by blood clots I imagine. I'm seriously questioning whether to have it.

I have my first jab on Thursday . I’m 36. What if there is no alternative on the day ?
I’m just so thankful to be getting a vaccine . Am I crazy to get the AstraZeneca if I can get an alternative but at a later date ? Thoughts ?

It’s also saying the cases on clot are due to ‘ thrombocytopenia’ which is low platelets. If you had full blood count it would pick up low levels and sure most people would know if do or not. The clot is similar to ones people get when take heparin which blood thinner. Signs Headaches, bleeding, like if you cut yourself you can’t stop it, bleeding from nose, gums, etc... purperia purple bruising mainly on legs. Breathless, chest pain. DVT clot not sure linking but you would have pain, swelling, redness. Mainly starts in legs. I have blood clotting disorder and family history blood clots. I had AZ 3 days ago. I also have health anxiety so as someone that does and reading shits loads of what causes and what to look out for.

@EgSk

I have my first jab on Thursday . I’m 36. What if there is no alternative on the day ? I’m just so thankful to be getting a vaccine . Am I crazy to get the AstraZeneca if I can get an alternative but at a later date ? Thoughts ?

In your position I would hold out for an alternative but that's my personal opinion. If nothing else it stops you having 3 or 4 weeks of anxiety looking for blood clot symptoms. Now the advice is for under 40s the vaccine centres will be understanding.

"@LondonWFuck I meant I am 41. I'm not any more likely to die from covid as I was when I was 39 or 40 but just as likely to be affected by blood clots I imagine. I'm seriously questioning whether to have it."

@midnightstar66 I'm with you completely. I'm still only 40 (just about!) so even closer to the cut off point for getting a choice. My first dose is booked for tomorrow and they only seem to offer AZ. I have decided to wander round there in a bit and see if I can find out if they only ever offer AZ. If they only do AZ then I will cancel my appointment as having spent an ENTIRE day pondering, I don't think there's enough benefit to me having the jab to outweigh the risk, and so I'm not gonna bother for now. Jabs also currently appear to have no benefit travel-wise, and the "green list" is a complete joke, so for me personally there's even less incentive. I'm going to try and book into somewhere which has been mentioned on here as dishing out Pfizer. I'd rather cancel my appt in advance than show up on the day and not go ahead.