If you think it's too soon for normal life to be resuming...

[TheVampiresWife]

...when do you think it won't be? What criteria would you like to see met?

I've seen lots of posts here saying that the trials going on in Liverpool/hospitality reopening/the pencilled-in end to restrictions in June and so on are all happening too soon. If your thinking is along these lines, why so - do you think we should be aiming for zero covid before things reopen fully? Or are variants your main worry? And if you do feel this way, will you continue to SD/stay home/not participate in large events etc beyond June?

My own thinking is that we're in a better position now than we've been since all this began - the majority of adults have had at least one vaccination (and vaccines have been proven to reduce transmission), rates are incredibly low or suppressed in many areas and over 60% of people have antibodies. But I'm interested to know why people may feel differently.

The only thing I think isn't a good idea is non-essential travel, in or out.
I base that in Australia. They've not had "red" or "green" countries. Non-essential travel is a straight no (my BIL and his family can't come to our wedding as Australia won't allow them to travel).
Anyone coming in to the country, for many months, has to agree to paying for a hotel to be booked for 14 days. This cost around £2000. All meals are provided but you don't get to pick the hotel, you don't know what one you get until you arrive.
If you refuse you aren't allowed in.
You are tested regularly and given a certificate at the end to show you've quarantined and are negative.
No ifs or buts or whining to the media like here. No chance of going via green countries to avoid it like the three morons did in Scotland who brought the variant in.
As a result, they're pretty much back to normal. And they don't have the same vaccine program as us.
That to me has always been the key, shutting our border.

We have some great UK destinations which need our support, if we all do our bit where possible by staying in the UK and spending what we can on days out and such, it's going to help our economy and help businesses already struggling.

The rest I'm not worried on and was quite cross with Raab and his masks and distancing after 21st June as that wasn't what was promised in February. My wedding is the first week after 21st June and I worry about having to wear a mask walking down the aisle.
If they can do these tests successfully, remembering there won't be Covid zero and and allow funerals of however many we like, the same needs to be done in other situations, like weddings and hospitality.

Covid Anxiety Syndrome it’s called.

My wedding is the first week after 21st June and I worry about having to wear a mask walking down the aisle.

Surely you won’t be required to do that?

I think unvaccinated people in their thirties should get a bit of perspective. Their risk of death or severe illness is pretty much the same as that of the fully vaccinated fifty-and -sixty-somethings now swanning around without a care in the world

It's not about dying, it's the risk of long covid.

Everyone should be offered their first vaccine dose before the restrictions ease altogether. If that means pushing back the 21 June deadline by say 3 weeks I can't see a problem with that. We've waited this long. All adults are supposed to be fully vaccinated by the end of July in any case.

Because some people want an excuse to do as little as possible

I am sure there are quite a few people who've enjoyed not being forced to socialise by their employers (oh you have to come out or you're not a team player type thing).

People who want continued/stricter border closures - how long do you want this for, and what would be your criteria for lifting them? You don’t think we should just wall ourselves off from the plague-ridden foreigners indefinitely, surely?

I'm not in the UK so I'm not commenting on your rate of reopening but I will beg you all to remain cautious and stick with social distancing/marks/sanitiser etc for the moment, I'm typing in bed, tired from not sleeping because of pain, not being able to work because of ill health, having had to give up my career aged 35 because I couldn't find a consultant willing to start I was fit to return to work after three weeks sick, all these issues stem from a viral infection (glandular fever) I had aged 12, I was showing symptoms by age 14 and diagnosed with fibromyalgia after that. It has had a huge impact on my life so please continue to take precautions, protect those who haven't yet been vaccinated and those who can't be at least until the numbers are consistently very low.

One of the issues is that trust in what the government guidance has been pretty much eroded.

To make it worst, the local elections are putting pressure on the Conservatives to go with what Conservative voters want to hear.

I agree with others about borders, should have been stricter from the start and it's truly shocking that covid-efficient border controls are not in place.

A strong, efficient Track and trace would make a real difference. But it's a total failure.

And of course a full independent enquiry should have already started, so that the government doesn't make the same mistakes again if there is a flair up caused by new variants.

Personally, as a 32yr old unvaccinated and heavily pregnant woman.. I'd feel more comfortable if we waited until more of the adult population have been offered at least one vaccine. I have to go to work. I have a kid at school and DH as a teacher (both unvaccinated) so I am exposed, and most of those in schools (including staff, as DS and DH's schools are primarly staffed by those in 30s) are unvaccinated. So whilst I understand that I benefit from others being vaccinated in terms of general lower transmission in society.... a case in school can still take off into an outbreak (as it did in DH's class first week back in March). Obviously, being heavily pregnant means I'm vulnerable too so I am more cautious about this than your average 30yr old I assume.

I don't really understand why we're even considering opening foreign travel at this stage, with all the unknowns about variants and other countries around the world having a terrible time (I don't trust the gov to put countries on the red list quick enough too). This should be the last thing to open IMO.

Meh im antisocial so social distancing is great for me i took the kids for a family swim on Saturday we actually had space to swim and mess about instead of bumping into people every five seconds 🙃

I’m very happy to see restrictions lift.
But I do wish we had a decent track and trace system in place.
However, I’ve given up hope I’d that.

@GoldenOmber

People who want continued/stricter border closures - how long do you want this for, and what would be your criteria for lifting them? You don’t think we should just wall ourselves off from the plague-ridden foreigners indefinitely, surely?

What we need is a quarantine/tracking/testing procedure that’s fit for purpose and can be implemented as and when necessary. It doesn’t have to be implemented all the time, but we need to know it’s ready to go when required.

What we need is a quarantine/tracking/testing procedure that’s fit for purpose and can be implemented as and when necessary. It doesn’t have to be implemented all the time, but we need to know it’s ready to go when required.

Okay, and when is ‘when required’? When would you consider it not required?

I personally do not feel comfortable trusting any government, and particularly this one, to indefinitely ban immigration or travel from whichever countries it likes for as long as it likes. Drastic measures may be warranted for this crisis but they need to be in place for as short a time as possible, and only brought back in if there’s a very very compelling argument to do so.

@Theunamedcat

Meh im antisocial so social distancing is great for me i took the kids for a family swim on Saturday we actually had space to swim and mess about instead of bumping into people every five seconds 🙃

Social distancing continuing would be the final death knell for many businesses (pubs, restaurants, music venues, theatres) which won't be able to operate financially at such low capacity. It would also mean no meeting/hugging friends or family.

Social distancing goes far further than queuing 2m apart to get into Tesco and has devastating implications for businesses/mental health if it were to continue indefinitely.

I haven't made my mind up about this. Particularly if UK based folk should be able to visit family members in Europe and vice versa.

But I think that the Chilean experience is worrying although I don't pretend to know anything about their comparable health care system:
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/mar/28/chile-coronavirus-lockdowns-vaccination-success

I never believed in Boris’s everything totally normal after 21 June so not at all surprised that he’d sent DR out to start the backtracking. This is what Boris does, see also Christmas.

Note that none of the leaders of the devolved countries have said we could be back to normal by June.

I think opening up needs to be done very carefully, and that it’s very risky to allow foreign travel and large scale crowd events. Most other stuff is probably ok now or in the near future us we really don’t want to take risks with new variants.

Not only will social distancing continuing make many businesses go under, but it will also have the impact of raising prices. Businesses can't continue to operate at reduced capacity for very long without having to raise prices. Personally I'm able and willing to pay higher prices for kids activities, days out, meals and drinks out but many won't be able to and certain activities will become unaffordable and inaccessible for many and I don't think that's a good thing. Those that are wanting social distancing to carry on long term please think about the wider implications of this.

@Theunamedcat

Meh im antisocial so social distancing is great for me i took the kids for a family swim on Saturday we actually had space to swim and mess about instead of bumping into people every five seconds 🙃

@Theunamedcat are you happy for the price of your family swim to double or triple to allow for the reduced capacity long term though?

@TheKeatingFive

My wedding is the first week after 21st June and I worry about having to wear a mask walking down the aisle.

Surely you won’t be required to do that?

At this point I've no idea. After Raab saying on Marr this weekend that masks and distancing may remain after 21st June I wouldn't know either way

I don't think the conflicting info helps at all.

@Theunamedcat

Meh im antisocial so social distancing is great for me i took the kids for a family swim on Saturday we actually had space to swim and mess about instead of bumping into people every five seconds 🙃

You may not have a swimming pool to enjoy your antisocial swim in if they are obliged to operate at such low capacity indefinitely.

You're right but at the moment we're looking at a high percentage of the population needing NHS help due to the long term effects of this pandemic.

Define 'high percentage'.

For me it’s a bit soon purely because I am due to give birth soon and haven’t gotten my vaccine yet due to the time limit in pregnancy. Outside pregnancy I am high risk anyway. But I don’t take issue with others having a sense of normality just unfortunately it’s safer for me not to just yet!

I think it would be more sensible to wait until 3 weeks after all eligible consenting people are fully vaccinated.

I'm not keen on the idea of travelling to and from countries that are not at that stage of vaccination.

I don't want to see any mitigations dropped in schools until all schools are equipped with better ventilation systems.

The only thing I think isn't a good idea is non-essential travel, in or out
I base that in Australia. They've not had "red" or "green" countries. Non-essential travel is a straight no (my BIL and his family can't come to our wedding as Australia won't allow them to travel)

As a result, they're pretty much back to normal. And they don't have the same vaccine program as us
That to me has always been the key, shutting our border

Pre vaccine yes but we have 50m vaccinated and few deaths, by June, it'll be millions more inc 2nd doses.
Either the vaccines work or they don't, as i said, if the argument is there "might" be a mutant virus out there, then lock us away for forever.

We have some great UK destinations which need our support, if we all do our bit where possible by staying in the UK and spending what we can on days out and such, it's going to help our economy and help businesses already struggling

Foreign hols wont mean people will stop holidaying in the UK! there is finite capacity in the UK.
What about the 1000s of travel agencies, airlines, airport staff, ferry companies and the workers at uk ports? Do they not also need support?

I fail to see what is gained by not opening up in the next few weeks, as infection rates fall and vaccinations increase in Europe.

Either the vaccines work or they don't, as i said, if the argument is there "might" be a mutant virus out there, then lock us away for forever.

I agree with this. Viruses mutate. That's what they do, although SARS Cov 2 seems less prone to mutations than other viruses. If it's about getting the rest of the world fully vaccinated, that could be years away. We can't continue with signficant restrictions that long just because of hypothetical 'mutant' viruses.