EU suing AZ

[Baileysforchristmas]

Do you think it’s a good idea to sue a non profit vaccine producer in the middle of a pandemic? Especially when it’s in the contract the EU can’t sue for late delivery

www.politico.eu/article/belgium-was-warned-eus-astrazeneca-contract-lacked-teeth-documents/

And Moderna and Pfizer are being paid a lot more for their vaccines so can probably throw more money at the problems.

The EU screwed AZ down on price (from what I remember of the Jan threads on here, they were told that this would slow supply down) so AZ has less money for that. What with court costs it is possible that AZ could actually make a loss on the vaccines in the EU.

Didn't AZ have a walkaway clause in their EU contract? If I were them I would walk away and deal only with individual EU countries.

@WaitinginWorcestershire

NewLevels in Q2 the UK supply of moderna has been cut & EUs not.

That doesn't sound fair really does it? We can't really complain as we are in a good place in the UK. But why cut UK & not EU.

I suspect its basically to prevent agro with the EU. And I am glad that the UK is not making a big deal out of it.

Q2's EU deliveries were cut, we just already knew about it halfway through Q1.

But I think there's a certain normality to that. In the UK you hadn't really felt it until April - you were getting what was promised (deservedly, with the AZ investment.)
The sad truth is that's an outlier - globally the companies have struggled to deliver what was ordered.

@WaitinginWorcestershire

NewLevels in Q2 the UK supply of moderna has been cut & EUs not.

That doesn't sound fair really does it? We can't really complain as we are in a good place in the UK. But why cut UK & not EU.

I suspect its basically to prevent agro with the EU. And I am glad that the UK is not making a big deal out of it.

Yes what use would uk kicking off do they don't want burn bridges as in future we want access 2nd gen vaccines or even nasal sprays moderna may produce. It does seem unfair we get a measly amount. I guess we only made a measly order 7million and upped to 17million. Moderna the most expensive and the cost of addition pfizer has gone up.

What I am curious about is why did Germany get 55million Denmark vaccines on loan. Don't they have a wider portfolio vaccines and more money than say Lithuania and czech republic who were desperate for them or any vaccine.
Is Germany in bigger crisis than Eastern block member states?

www.euronews.com/2021/04/15/european-countries-express-interest-in-purchasing-denmark-s-astrazeneca-vaccines

Well at least we will know the outcome by the end of May.

European Union lawyers today demanded AstraZeneca immediately deliver Covid-19 vaccines from its factories in Britain, in a move that risks reigniting tensions with Downing Street over scarce vaccine supplies in the bloc.

The call came in the opening hearing of the European Commission's legal case in Brussels against the Anglo-Swedish drugmaker over supply delays.

AstraZeneca has missed delivery targets to both Britain and the EU, delaying the bloc's vaccination rollout and fuelling rancour between London and Brussels.

The bloc accuses the company of failing to meet its contractual obligations, whereas AstraZeneca says it is complying with the agreement, which it considers not fully binding.

"We demand deliveries by the end of June and we also demand with immediate effect the use of all plants listed in the contract," EU lawyer Rafael Jafferali said.

@3asAbird it was 55k 😊 but yes why did they go to Germany, surely other EU countries were more in need?

I really hope AZ don't back down over this.

I'd throw a few quid into a court cost crowd funder for them!

@Baileysforchristmas

Well at least we will know the outcome by the end of May.

European Union lawyers today demanded AstraZeneca immediately deliver Covid-19 vaccines from its factories in Britain, in a move that risks reigniting tensions with Downing Street over scarce vaccine supplies in the bloc.

The call came in the opening hearing of the European Commission's legal case in Brussels against the Anglo-Swedish drugmaker over supply delays.

AstraZeneca has missed delivery targets to both Britain and the EU, delaying the bloc's vaccination rollout and fuelling rancour between London and Brussels.

The bloc accuses the company of failing to meet its contractual obligations, whereas AstraZeneca says it is complying with the agreement, which it considers not fully binding.

"We demand deliveries by the end of June and we also demand with immediate effect the use of all plants listed in the contract," EU lawyer Rafael Jafferali said.

I imagine AZ has undelivered to Australia by least 250k. Uk plant has sent some to Australia not sure how and why was all kept bit quiet. Sadly I do think UK has supply issued and maybe thats what press conference about later lumpy supply. 500k from moderna is useless amount and only 1st doses . I love in Bristol and locals cannot book vaccines for last few days in Bristol/ bath/ Somerset. Keep getting Worcester/ Bournemouth or today they added chipping Norton Oxford. As we talking group 10 40s so could use AZ I fear our AZ stocks are in short supply. No idea when janson deliver or if mhra approved the one shot.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees AZ are worth £100billion, I don’t think your money will help 😂

@3asAbird I think this all to slow the UK rollout down to save face for the EU. Why else would the EU be doing this, it doesn’t make any difference to their rollout 🤷‍♀️

So the EU wants all UK supply of AZ (second doses for many of us) with no acceptance that any other contract may be relevant. Interesting starting point for the court case.

Yes sorry to many 00s 55 k just seems odd Germany has 1st dibs.

Australia vis owed 3.1 million az vaccines supposed to come from Europes production plants.

Odd matt Hancock denied we sent 700k oz then said well its upto private companies what they do.
I guess eu might argue that uk factories don't just serve the UK and why did we send to Australia .

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/coronavirus-vaccines-australia-astrazeneca-secret-b1828425.html

Not sure if Canada owed any although they can get theirs via covax.
Also America eventually gave Canada and Mexico some of their AZ supply.

What happened to south Africa doses did they sell or return them?
Is Australia still going to produce AZ?

Whys Australia not suing astrazeneca or even the EU who wouldn't send does to papa new guinea.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/07/australia-accuses-eu-of-semantics-over-blocked-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-claims

The EU are sounding more like a dictatorship by the minute. This is going to be interesting court case.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees AZ are worth £100billion, I don’t think your money will help 😂

@3asAbird I think this all to slow the UK rollout down to save face for the EU. Why else would the EU be doing this, it doesn’t make any difference to their rollout 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
I agree!

But I'd like to show my support for them.

@MRex

So the EU wants all UK supply of AZ (second doses for many of us) with no acceptance that any other contract may be relevant. Interesting starting point for the court case.

They are blinkered to needs of any other country all they care about is getting their doses. We don't have any spare doses of AZ give at the moment I'm pretty sure they hiding lumpy short supply if AZ as vaccinations 1st doses massively slowed down and they meant to be vaccinating 40plus. If anyone should get them its republic of Ireland as we share a land border. If they tried to take vaccines from UK sites all hell would break loose and think government be forced to respond or act.

Whys Australia not suing astrazeneca or even the EU who wouldn't send does to papa new guinea.

I think Australia was planning on manufacturing its own supply of AZ vaccine but I don't know if it's up and running yet.

@BuggerBognor

So the EU wants all UK supply of AZ (second doses for many of us) with no acceptance that any other contract may be relevant.

Not quite, and not “all”, but the EU says clause 5.4 requires them to supply EU from UK plants as well. (AZ says it doesn’t because of clause 5.1 and that is has met its BRE obligation).

EU’s claim for breach of contract is against the AZ Swedish entity which does not own or control the UK plants so it’s unlikely that the remedy EU is seeking is even within the court’s jurisdiction. The UK gov - sensibly - contracted with the UK AZ entity. Interestingly there is a clause in the EU contract iirc in which the Swedish AZ entity confirms it has not entered into any contracts that would prevent fulfillment if this one. Which it hadn’t of course, at least not in respect of the UK plants...

So does that mean that the court case is a load of bollocks just sabre-rattling?

If doses from the UK az sites is the restitution they seek yet its separate legal company and separate legal jurisdictions and laws then yes sabre rattling.
The best thing they could do is terminate contract az and get a refund or are the eu paying upon delivery via the quarter?
I dident realise there was clause for AZ for terminate the contract.
But surely they would have done that jan when eu published both eu and uk contracts and ran sort of smear campaign again effectiveness of vaccines before clots came to light evoked article 16 ni and brought in export ban would have been az significantly run for the hills.
Guess they into deep and wanted to resolve it.

A month ago afew countries Poland Netherlands and Belgium were against legal action so wonder whats changed within the last month.
The janson being delayed has been a issue for the EU.

@NewLevelsOfTiredness it makes sense to give them to those who want as long as they accept risks or if not give to a country that can use them, its horrible thinking if vaccines not being used quickly when many are desperate

No post Brexit UK Tory govt is going to give up UK produced vaccines to the EU. Certainly not when we've spent so much on development. The govt gets away with a lot but I think even they know that this would go down like a bucket of cold puke with the electorate. So the only people likely to gain from this demand are the lawyers - the ones demanding access to goods they've no legal entitlement to and the ones the UK would have to employ to fight it.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vaccine-tsar-says-eu-will-get-astrazeneca-doses-over-which-uk-made-claim-1.4532523

A major problem thats been brewing for a while.
The UK government said az contact gave them a right to vaccines from halix plant leiden Netherlands.
The one only approved by Europe this month for doses to be used in Europe.
We even suggested sharing whatever was in the Netherlands eu said that won't do.
That the 1.5millon there is all for the EU.
That fact we had relationship with halix for last year sending people there to help increase yeild and investing 21 million in the leiden plant means nothing that its all for EU member states.
Another article said there's 5million stock piled there.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vaccine-tsar-says-eu-will-get-astrazeneca-doses-over-which-uk-made-claim-1.4532523

AZ I think maybe in breech of contract with the UK if leiden plant was part of our contract.

What I don't understand is without article 122 how can they just not only block buy take whatever there and redistribute to other member states to use if earmarked for UK.
Seems like theft to me the current export ban only went as far to block exports so no idea where Australia 250k doses went.

I guess UK not suing as they don't hold az responsible they hold the EU responsible but seem to have let it go for now.
The brexit treaty least been ratified so that threat not hovering.

I believe pfizer undelivered equally to all customers.
But moderna seems be favouring EU but UK government staying quiet on how disappointed we are but small 17million order we small fry to Moderna.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-uk-idUSKBN2BD0RZ

I dident realise there was clause for AZ for terminate the contract.

I think there were discussions about it in Jan/Feb on here when people were forensically examining the contracts but I can't remember the details.

I think this isn’t about vaccines, it’s about the EU, mainly UVDL and her team feel like they have been duped and made a fool of by AZ and UK, why I don’t know but they feel they have a legal right to the UK plant and vaccines and they will take this all the way until someone says enough is enough. Germany didn’t want to go down this route so why they did is beyond me. The further the EU take this, the more damage they are doing to their reputation as they look bitter and twisted.

I think this isn’t about vaccines, it’s about the EU, mainly UVDL and her team feel like they have been duped and made a fool of by AZ and UK,

...and of course that is your opinion.

OTOH this could also be quite typical of some of the disputes we read about in other threads in this place where the advice offered regarding disputes is often along the lines of "time to get the big girl pants on and get the lawyers involved"?

Fundamentally it seems to be Party A feels that party B has been less than honest/straightforward with them, and a decision has been made to take the dispute to law. Sadly it's not exactly something that is uncommon.

We will only know if this is the Commission or AZ trying to cover their backsides once the legal proceedings have finished..

@loginfail I agree with you. I don’t think the EU are trying to cover their backsides, I think and it is only my opinion as you say, they feel they have duped, mislead, made a fool of, why I don’t know, miscommunication, misunderstanding or it could be mis lead, who knows. I don’t think it’s about vaccine numbers as such but the EU thought, right from the beginning, they had a legal right to the UK made vaccines.