EU suing AZ

[Baileysforchristmas]

Do you think it’s a good idea to sue a non profit vaccine producer in the middle of a pandemic? Especially when it’s in the contract the EU can’t sue for late delivery

www.politico.eu/article/belgium-was-warned-eus-astrazeneca-contract-lacked-teeth-documents/

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

I think a lot of these problems are due to the AZ vaccine being produced for no profit. It was a wonderful idea but in retrospect Oxford should have specified no profit prices for Covax but other countries should be paying the going rate. That would have ensured more money to invest in the production facilities (this certainly seems to have been an issue with the plants in EU countries) and also I think the lower the cost of an item, the less people value it.

Pfizer and Moderna etc. probably cannot believe how naive AZ were to agree to no profit. But then they presumably are experienced vaccine producers and know just how tricky the process can be whereas AZ are not.

As soon as the situation is reduced from 'Global Pandemic' it becomes 'cost only' for COVAX but everyone else starts paying full price. this can be earliest June 21st this year, I think.

So I think it was a long game - make it popular, make it the vaccine that beat the pandemic, and then everyone will want to use it for the probably annual boosters and the money comes in.

So a good relationship with the big economic blocks should theoretically be important to them.

The “at cost” thing was actually stipulated by Oxford uni not AZ.
I wonder if Oxford team too now rue the day they insisted on this with their manufacturer!
I bet they are shocked. I am actually on the trial and I know the small team I go and see were pretty shocked by the EU’s ruthlessness with regards the whole situation. They couldn’t believe macrons comments back in January. They are scientists, research nurses etc and pretty disappointed with the whole saga. I am too, it’s put me off risking my health by volunteering to help ever again when the amazing product you help create is fought over and disparaged in such a disgraceful way and high level politicians sue you

As soon as the situation is reduced from 'Global Pandemic' it becomes 'cost only' for COVAX but everyone else starts paying full price. this can be earliest June 21st this year, I think.

So I think it was a long game - make it popular, make it the vaccine that beat the pandemic, and then everyone will want to use it for the probably annual boosters and the money comes in.

So a good relationship with the big economic blocks should theoretically be important to them.

I'm not convinced. Firstly, who decides when the pandemic is officially over, is it the WHO? And are AZ telling countries, well if your order is delivered after that declaration it may double? triple? in cost? Can they even do that?

And the Sputnik vaccine is apparently suspiciously similar to the AZ one so if AZ up their prices for tweaked booster shots who's to say they won't be undercut by Russia and never actually make much of a profit on this vaccine.

Sadly I can see AZ walking away from vaccine production when all this is over.

@sashagabadon

The “at cost” thing was actually stipulated by Oxford uni not AZ. I wonder if Oxford team too now rue the day they insisted on this with their manufacturer! I bet they are shocked. I am actually on the trial and I know the small team I go and see were pretty shocked by the EU’s ruthlessness with regards the whole situation. They couldn’t believe macrons comments back in January. They are scientists, research nurses etc and pretty disappointed with the whole saga. I am too, it’s put me off risking my health by volunteering to help ever again when the amazing product you help create is fought over and disparaged in such a disgraceful way and high level politicians sue you

Yes, I think it will make a lot of us more cynical about the way the world works. What's that favourite MN saying, 'never a good deed goes unpunished'?

@QuentininQuarantino

50,000 are being sent to Germany so that accounts for the rest.

But OP was told this upthread so it’s very strange behavior.

It's almost as though that info doesn't fit the narrative...

@sashagabadon

The “at cost” thing was actually stipulated by Oxford uni not AZ. I wonder if Oxford team too now rue the day they insisted on this with their manufacturer! I bet they are shocked. I am actually on the trial and I know the small team I go and see were pretty shocked by the EU’s ruthlessness with regards the whole situation. They couldn’t believe macrons comments back in January. They are scientists, research nurses etc and pretty disappointed with the whole saga. I am too, it’s put me off risking my health by volunteering to help ever again when the amazing product you help create is fought over and disparaged in such a disgraceful way and high level politicians sue you

Snap, I was involved with the trial as well and feel exactly the same! I think the EU have behaved awfully throughout this. I just try to focus on the good part, and think how many lives have been saved, and ignore all the shitshow about the EU suing etc. It will all come to pass, as the saying goes (I think!)

It must be hard to be involved and hear all this negativity. I’m definitely very grateful to all

Hello Fellow trial compatriots Bakedbean
It hours of our time isn’t it, all given freely, If you added it all up and not over until June ( for me) and we are a tiny tiny part of the whole U.K. effort.
A little bit of gratitude and thanks that this vaccine even exists at all rather than threats to sue and stupid ignorant comments wouldn’t go amiss!
So many trials were run in the U.K. of all the major vaccines.

This is what the court case is about, the EU want immediate access to the UK plants

www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-begins-brussels-court-2021-04-28/

www.reuters.com/world/europe/astrazeneca-not-obliged-provide-eu-vaccines-all-plants-lawyer-2021-04-28/

@sashagabadon

Hello Fellow trial compatriots Bakedbean It hours of our time isn’t it, all given freely, If you added it all up and not over until June ( for me) and we are a tiny tiny part of the whole U.K. effort. A little bit of gratitude and thanks that this vaccine even exists at all rather than threats to sue and stupid ignorant comments wouldn’t go amiss! So many trials were run in the U.K. of all the major vaccines.

Isn’t that human nature to be ungrateful though? I am extremely grateful to the scientific community for making it happen. But yes you are right, lots of up and down to the centres for checks etc ! Fingers crossed the the EU don’t get very far with this, as I would hate it to put of other trials in the future.

Thank you to all that took part in the trials, I am truly grateful. Without you myself and my family would not have been vaccinated x

@Baileysforchristmas

Thank you to all that took part in the trials, I am truly grateful. Without you myself and my family would not have been vaccinated x

I was in awe of the cross section of people who took part. train drivers, supermarket workers, teachers, vicars etc. Especially front line NHS workers who not only were working through the pandemic also took the vaccine as part of the Oxford trial. I get quite emotional thinking about it x

The EU have completely destroyed their reputation on the world stage with the vaccine debacle. They are both ruthless and totally hapless - a dangerous combination.

I hope they lose the case and make themselves look even more foolish than they do already.

As someone else said upthread - there's never a good deed goes unpunished.

@Baileysforchristmas

Thank you to all that took part in the trials, I am truly grateful. Without you myself and my family would not have been vaccinated x

You're back, would you mind answering how you know that Denmark has 3.5million unused AZ doses with a six month shelf life sitting somewhere? You seem to be conveniently ignoring things that don't fit your narrative

@Baileysforchristmas

Thank you to all that took part in the trials, I am truly grateful. Without you myself and my family would not have been vaccinated x

Thanks Bailey Although I am not fishing for compliments (honestly ) but neither I nor my NHS colleagues that gave their time and risked their health to take part in this trial ( for the benefit of others) envisaged the EU or anyone would behave this entitled bullying way over the end result

No one seems to know how many vaccines Denmark have or who whey have gone to? 55,000 went Germany but that was a loan which they expect back. Please enlighten me on where Denmark doses and 250k Australian doses have gone?

On another note, what the EU want from the court case is the UK vaccines handed over to the EU, we make such a small amount, it won’t make much difference to their rollout, not only that, they have a huge order with Pfizer 🤷‍♀️

The contract also says that a Catalent (CTLT.N) factory in the United States which manufactures AstraZeneca jabs "may serve as a back-up supply site".

So are the EU going to sue AZ in the US as well?

Good luck with that.

EU lawyer Rafael Jafferali told the judge: "We demand deliveries by the end of June and we also demand with immediate effect the use of all plants listed in the contract.

And to all you trialees. I am so grateful for the vaccine. Please let the people working on the vaccine know how grateful the vast majority of us are.

I know back in January Italy was very vocal about delays in vaccines and prepared to sue pfizer and think moderna as well as az over failure to deliver doses they ordered.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-latest-italy-ponders-suing-pfizer-for-vaccine-delays-pfizer-italy-canada-us-vaccines-b1789982.html

I don't know how pfizer rectified the situation of yeild issues so fast.
I am unsure if the process for different types vaccine is the reason az couldn't be upscale as quickly.
Pfizer have delivered half of what uk ordered in total 20 million out of 40million.
As UDVL claimed Europe sent 21million vaccines to UK but 20 was pfizer and only 1 million was az.
I don't know if other issues like problems getting raw materials for az vaccines was issue as my understanding is the raw materials for Europe az factories came from USA.
Theres also shortage of bags they grown the vaccines.

I am intrigued by how moderna hasent upset them.
I consider 500k delivery to UK out 17million be a waste if time.
What's the hold up?

www.eureporter.co/health/vaccine-technology/2021/04/08/moderna-says-europe-bound-covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-are-on-track/

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/italy-could-sign-contract-with-moderna-more-vaccine-doses-paper-2021-04-09/

Moderna under delivered to Italy by 20%

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-vaccine-idUKKBN29Y1CD

The rhetoric coming from Italy leader about suffocating pharmaceutical companies making them pay and deliver.
The threats to sue all 3 every month.
The noise about how they keen to do a deal with Russia.
How they want to sue az over manslaughter due to side effects.
Seizing 250k oz vaccines
Raids on Italian bottling factory.
Its all so extreme my point is not all vaccines being treated same or fairly neither are all countries.
I get their frustration and anger but how does it help them.
If we single out az why not sue moderna..
Europes paying a high price for extra doses or moderna and pfzier so they done well out of Europe the UK in compare has ordered small amounts from these 2 firms.

If no other hearing is necessary, a decision could be made in the weeks following the May 26 hearings.

Mr Hakim Boularbah told journalists after the hearing: "AstraZeneca deeply regrets the decision of the European Commission to start this legal action,"

"We hope to resolve this dispute as soon as possible."

@Baileysforchristmas

No one seems to know how many vaccines Denmark have or who whey have gone to? 55,000 went Germany but that was a loan which they expect back. Please enlighten me on where Denmark doses and 250k Australian doses have gone?

On another note, what the EU want from the court case is the UK vaccines handed over to the EU, we make such a small amount, it won’t make much difference to their rollout, not only that, they have a huge order with Pfizer 🤷‍♀️

Here you are. That's Denmark's AZ deliveries to date - a bit over 700k :)

The 55k donated to the northern provinces in Germany were to ensure they didn't go out of date. The later stuff that still has a fair shelf life to go hasn't been donated yet because there is political will here to make them available on a voluntary basis here still - that's currently being debated.

@3asAbird

I think Moderna were under delivering to everyone equally (except for the US,) plus it was announced early and not a constant trickle of further letdowns.

Pfizer's under delivery early on was to boost their capacity and over deliver in the 2nd quarter - and in the end they even over delivered on the increased amount they claimed that would achieve.

NewLevels in Q2 the UK supply of moderna has been cut & EUs not.

That doesn't sound fair really does it? We can't really complain as we are in a good place in the UK. But why cut UK & not EU.

I suspect its basically to prevent agro with the EU. And I am glad that the UK is not making a big deal out of it.