Anti lockdown protests yesterday.

[Tumbleweed101]

There is a lot being said on social media but not much in mainstream news which is interesting given how many people seem to have gone to the one in London at least. I understand there were some elsewhere in the country too.

Just curious if anyone took part
and what people think about the protests.

"Have there been centuries of killings, ghettoes, pogroms, scapegoating and other discrimination against unvaccinated people?"

Nazi Germany started with the othering and exclusion of certain groups in society. So did all fascist regimes. That was my point. As I think you understand.

Who tried to 'misappropriate' Sophie Scholl...? She's one of my great heroes. Maybe you can educate me.

If people want to make comparisons to the Nazis and to refer to othering, it's worth remembering the attitude the nazis had towards the more vulnerable.

It's a disgusting term (and I'll understand if this post needs to be deleted) that they used - 'worthless eaters'.

Everyone is at risk from Covid especially with the possibility of long Covid, but the disabled, ill, elderly, and poor are most at risk.

It's also disproportionately affecting some non white communities (also targeted by the nazis disgusting white supremist ideology).

These communities just so happen to comprise a significant percentage of London's population.

To hold a mass gathering with wilful refusal to adhere to Covid safe measures in a city with large Jewish and non white communities AND together with the racist imagery, it says a lot about the intentions and attitudes of those organising it.

@Cornettoninja
I honestly don’t believe you’re anti-Semitic or even actually that bothered about the whole thing, which is fine, but refusal to recognise anti-semitism, racism, homophobia etc is part of the the problem isn’t it?

I do recognise it. I completely understand why Jewish people are upset at the yellow stars being worn at an anti-lockdown march. I have stated again and again on this thread that I do not condone or support it being used as a protest visual. In particular, I strongly condemn non-Jewish people drawing a comparison between Nazi germany and other situations.

I also recognise that not all Jewish people feel the same about drawing the comparison. Those I will not condemn, because it is not my place to do so. Everyone here is confident that the star-wearers were definitely not Jewish, but I’m not confident of that. Maybe they were, maybe they weren’t.

There are also black people who argue that the N-word should not be used by black people, for example, in hip-hop.

I have a gay friend who hates Drag Race because he thinks it perpetuates stereotypes about gay men but his friendship group largely disagrees with him and they argue about it all the time.

These nuances exist within marginalised groups, but they are not my lines to police. I certainly will call out racism and anti-semitism coming from whites and non-Jewish people, or homophobia coming from straights, whenever I see it.

It's also ironic that people who are so concerned about rights would harass and intimidate other people for wearing masks (London shoppers). The people wearing masks have a right to do so without being subjected to verbal abuse.

Interesting that women carrying candles received far more police resistance and media coverage.
Why might that be I wonder?

The right to protest is one thing.
Appropriating the holocaust and wearing yellow stars turns my stomach and is totally disgusting.

@doubleshotespresso

Interesting that women carrying candles received far more police resistance and media coverage. Why might that be I wonder?

Because the vigil which lasted several days was hijacked for two hours one evening by protestors, who tried to use the peaceful vigil as a cover for their unpleasant conduct, and police only acted when people refused to leave and many were still arrived. The evening crowd was far from women only, and they refused to disperse when requested by the police, so enforcement followed.

Simiiar has happened with other gatherings, when the initial gathering went ahead but they did not disperse when requested

[quote Terracotta9]@Cornettoninja
I honestly don’t believe you’re anti-Semitic or even actually that bothered about the whole thing, which is fine, but refusal to recognise anti-semitism, racism, homophobia etc is part of the the problem isn’t it?

I do recognise it. I completely understand why Jewish people are upset at the yellow stars being worn at an anti-lockdown march. I have stated again and again on this thread that I do not condone or support it being used as a protest visual. In particular, I strongly condemn non-Jewish people drawing a comparison between Nazi germany and other situations.

I also recognise that not all Jewish people feel the same about drawing the comparison. Those I will not condemn, because it is not my place to do so. Everyone here is confident that the star-wearers were definitely not Jewish, but I’m not confident of that. Maybe they were, maybe they weren’t.

There are also black people who argue that the N-word should not be used by black people, for example, in hip-hop.

I have a gay friend who hates Drag Race because he thinks it perpetuates stereotypes about gay men but his friendship group largely disagrees with him and they argue about it all the time.

These nuances exist within marginalised groups, but they are not my lines to police. I certainly will call out racism and anti-semitism coming from whites and non-Jewish people, or homophobia coming from straights, whenever I see it.[/quote]
by marching along with groups of people who are happy to wear them, you are condoning it, that's the problem

@JassyRadlett

Ignoring the ‘the London march of 10,000 was more demographically diverse than the global Iraq marches’ silliness, you keep focusing on the marchers, not the organisers

You can see drone footage from the march on social media. It was much more than 10,000. Not a million though. The largest march I’ve been to was an Iraq protest of about 300k, this appeared larger based on the length of street it covered - but not hugely larger.

No one needs to take my word for it that the march was demographically broad. Anyone can look at the footage on social media. There was everyone from family types to tie-dye lefty types, to antifa, to laddish hooligans. Again, I’ve never ever seen such a broad spectrum of society marching against one cause, and I don’t know that I ever will again. Truly extraordinary.

And yes, I will focus on the marchers and not the organisers because I don’t even know who the organisers are, particularly. Many groups were involved in the organisation and represented at the march.

I actually first heard about it on mumsnet, with vague references to the 24th posted on a few threads, which led to a google search, which led to a telegram group in which the location was posted on the day. That’s it. I’m not affiliated or aligned with any of the groups involved with the organising, and do not intend to be. I would certainly march again, however, for the same cause.

by marching along with groups of people who are happy to wear them, you are condoning it, that's the problem

I did not march alongside anyone wearing a yellow star, and did not see a single yellow star at all during the 3+ hours of the protest.

Granted, there were some wearing them, as we can see the photos.

But I don’t think people here understand how big this march was.

I saw a family wearing stars on Edgware Road. Twats.

I would certainly march again, however, for the same cause

With the same racist/anti-Semitic people? @Terracotta9

Let's hope no one gets sick, dies, or much worse, passes covid on to others. Selfish idiots. Selfish, entitled bastards. Every one of them. How many people did you watch die from covid ? Because NHS workers watched thousands upon thousands and they think you are so stupid. And selfish.
Grow up. I don't want to wear a mask, but I also don't want to be responsible for someone dying.

Obviously what is happening currently in India and Brazil is just nothing?

@Terracotta9 I think I’m going to have to leave this where it is. Every statement you make regarding the yellow star wearing requires qualification and that’s my point, it’s a simple image with no other information so your opinion can only be informed by that image or a statement from the people in it.

I fully believe you personally didn’t see it and whilst I still question the validity of putting aside ethical arguments to support a common cause I appreciate your reasons for making that decision. My further points are based purely on your posts here.

@mumsneedwine there have been many protests over the past year and during every one there are people flailing their arms about 'spikes' and deaths to follow etc etc, yet that's never actually happened, the rhetoric is boring and unproven now, it's just a way of putting spite and blame on people you dont agree with. And do you ever think that after a year of being guilt tripped about 'saving the NHS' that maybe people have had enough and want to protect themselves, their family, their futures and their health? The NHS has been beaten down by 10 years of tory leadership, not by protests.

@KatChocolate

One of the replies she got.

"AGAIN. Where was the similar tweet over the Sarah Everard vigil?

We are NHS employees. We do not get to decide what protests are worthy or not. We do not get to emotionally manipulate people who are advocating for causes we don't agree with. We are not the moral police"

I agree with the reply.

There are also images of nurses on the marches holding up placards, it is possible for those in the same profession to have differing views and beliefs.

@millenialblush and I've lost 5 friends and 3 colleagues because other people gave them COVID. I hope no one gets it from this march but why bloody risk it, look at India. Fine 3 weeks ago, held a few festivals and now its shit.
COVID kills. Its passed via the air. Big crowds are stupid and selfish.You catch covid from this march I hope you don't go near a hospital. Just selfish.

@Tealightsandd

It's also ironic that people who are so concerned about rights would harass and intimidate other people for wearing masks (London shoppers). The people wearing masks have a right to do so without being subjected to verbal abuse.

Exactly. Sounds yobbish

@millenialblush oh well if they are dressed as nurses they must be one 🤬

Selfish. If you care so much about the NHS then listen to the workers. We'd all like our lives back. This will happen quicker if idiots aren't selfish.

But I don’t think people here understand how big this march was.

Protests always feel and look bigger when you’re in them than they really are.

I find your lack of interest in what causes and groups you support with your presence pretty awful. As long as your cause is furthered you don’t care who those activities are hurting.

Our sense of responsibility for the way we deploy our activism is clearly very far apart.

@millenialblush

There are also images of nurses on the marches holding up placards, it is possible for those in the same profession to have differing views and beliefs.

One of the 'nurses' in those pictures has an Instagram account on which she states she's not a nurse and isn't employed by the NHS.

Anyone can buy scrubs on eBay and claim to be NHS, or wear them on a protest to make it appear so. Genuine NHS staff would likely be disciplined for wearing their (genuine) uniforms to a protest like this.

I certainly have great sympathy with the marchers. I probably differ from some in that I’m not anti all restrictions- I did support things like the rule of 6, masks in certain circumstances and super high risk settings like nightclubs and festivals being off limits.

But I have never supported lockdowns or stay at home orders or wholesale business closures. I think in years to come the damage caused by lost education, businesses going to the wall, poverty, domestic violence and mental health issues will far outweigh covid.

In particular I think young people have really been thrown under a bus- blamed for ‘rule breaking’ while bearing the brunt of lost education and jobs.

In particular, I think the government have become captive to one track scientists only considering covid over all other issues and have been loath to appear to prioritise the ‘economy over lives’ even through the two are inseparable.

I also think more efforts should have been made to keep things open that can happen safely, like outdoor sports and hospitality.