Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots

[Whichjab]

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-under-40-b931498.html

This is concerning, especially as there is limited research into combining vaccinations. I feel that the trust in vaccination is being eroded. I have always been pro vacc but feeling much less so atm.
I'm not sure I will get my second jab now.

Incorrect @Fieldofmemes- all vaccines rock. Literally all of them. AZ is a remarkable vaccine. A remarkable feat of science.

This thread is intolerable. Don’t get the fucking vaccine. I hope you realise what an incredible privilege, first world country moaner you are. I watch my family in India go through HELL at the moment. They would kill for any vaccine. Anything to save themselves from the horrors they are facing. We have a brilliant vaccine which has a clot risk lower than getting on a plane or taking various medications & we have this privilege that we have a right to a choice.

You have a choice. Get it or dont. Thankfully enough people realise their privilege & the risks taken in life daily and have got it enough to protect you while you wait for your previous Pfizer.

It literally makes me so angry I could cry.

🙄 all.the vaccines have rare side effects, Pfizer efficacy may be higher against mild disease, az is higher against severe disease hospitalisation and death. Pfizer also has extremely rate side effects and death .

Yes Pfizer isn't under investigation for clots. However it is under investigation as a previous poster has stated. Also slightly less likely to keep you out of hospital than AZ. Which probably means if the clot numbers continue to be low. Overall there won't be much in it between them. One vaccine you have a slightly higher risk if you still get infected. The other you have a low risk of clots. Complicated risk assessment isn't it. That is why experts do it.

@HolmeH

Incorrect *@Fieldofmemes*- all vaccines rock. Literally all of them. AZ is a remarkable vaccine. A remarkable feat of science.

This thread is intolerable. Don’t get the fucking vaccine. I hope you realise what an incredible privilege, first world country moaner you are. I watch my family in India go through HELL at the moment. They would kill for any vaccine. Anything to save themselves from the horrors they are facing. We have a brilliant vaccine which has a clot risk lower than getting on a plane or taking various medications & we have this privilege that we have a right to a choice.

You have a choice. Get it or dont. Thankfully enough people realise their privilege & the risks taken in life daily and have got it enough to protect you while you wait for your previous Pfizer.

It literally makes me so angry I could cry.

Oh honey. Please don't let a thread get to you. I know it is hard when people miss quote information or data etc but these threads mostly just attract like minded people who you won't change or a few genuinely very worried that take each bit of information and panic a little.

So sorry your family is going through all that in India. I agree people here sometime don't realise how lucky they are. Though ate own death rate is pretty scary our hospitals managed just about.

Hopefully the medical equipment various countries are sending will help. Some of the latest news is the vaccines being used in India are effective against that variant. So that is good news. They just need a lot more now.

@HolmeH As long as it remains a choice...

If I was one year younger I wouldn’t be offered the AZ vaccine which is really disconcerting.

We are moving to the US this year (late summer/early autumn) and I’m worried about not being able to get boosters if we get AZ as it’s not licensed there. My current stance is to just wait until we go to the US to get vaccines rather than risk getting AZ here and then having to mix vaccines later down the line.

The only thing giving me pause for thought is that my in-laws are refusing to get the vaccine because they are worried about long term side effects, and I’m worried about passing covid onto them... We can’t keep them from seeing the grandchildren when we are about to emigrate without causing a massive fight.

The Pfizer vaccine may be good, but Pfizer the company have an evil track record for 'experimental ' vaccines on Nigerian children.
If my children are to be vaccinated, I will refuse Pfizer and go with AZ if it's available.

@HolmeH

Incorrect *@Fieldofmemes*- all vaccines rock. Literally all of them. AZ is a remarkable vaccine. A remarkable feat of science.

This thread is intolerable. Don’t get the fucking vaccine. I hope you realise what an incredible privilege, first world country moaner you are. I watch my family in India go through HELL at the moment. They would kill for any vaccine. Anything to save themselves from the horrors they are facing. We have a brilliant vaccine which has a clot risk lower than getting on a plane or taking various medications & we have this privilege that we have a right to a choice.

You have a choice. Get it or dont. Thankfully enough people realise their privilege & the risks taken in life daily and have got it enough to protect you while you wait for your previous Pfizer.

It literally makes me so angry I could cry.

I totally agree with you. You are so right. This constant nitpicking is so disrespectful to the scientists that developed these life saving technologies and the 80% of the world that would kill for them. I hope your family in India get some relief soon.

Don’t read the thread then if it’s intolerable. What is going on in India seems desperate. The U.K. felt desperate in January. It’s been a desperate time.

Does this mean we shouldn’t question any treatment or vaccine offered to us? As a single mother, if I am unlucky enough to die or suffer serious illness - who will care for my children? The vaccine companies have said they won’t. The vaccine has been withdrawn in several countries for younger people.

Are you saying you don’t like this thread because you have family in India and therefore rather than not read the thread, the rest of us shouldn’t even discuss the relative risks? Because I’m sorry but that’s ridiculous

Good article here that is up to date and looks at all angles: www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/what-s-future-vaccines-linked-rare-clotting-disorders-science-breaks-down-latest

‘Nitpicking’, ‘disrespectful’

We’re discussing the possible risks, the evolving stats, different countries’ approaches and whether there will (or should) be a change in advice. Some of us also have valid concerns. That’s neither disrespectful nor nitpicking. As others have said, if you don’t want to take part in that discussion, perhaps this is not the thread for you.

It’s not disrespectful or nitpicking to question the data, possible risks, different countries’ approaches, etc, but it isn’t helpful when posters start ranting about cynicism and being sacrificed for the benefit of others.

Thank you for the science mag link @Schulte it was interesting to read.

I particularly found the following of interest because it seems to sum up how we are also thinking:

"Even a long wait for an alternative may be worth it if infections are low. In Norway, the risk of dying from TTS for women age 45 to 49 is equivalent to the risk of dying from COVID-19 over the next 79 weeks, assuming the infection rate stays the same, Camilla Stoltenberg, director general of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, told the 29 April webinar. “That group will have alternative vaccines, maybe with a small delay but nothing close to 79 weeks,” she said."

@Dementedswan

🙄 all.the vaccines have rare side effects, Pfizer efficacy may be higher against mild disease, az is higher against severe disease hospitalisation and death. Pfizer also has extremely rate side effects and death .

Have you got a citation for that? If you were referencing the Scottish study data from February then you can't actually make that comparison from the data because the follow up time was significantly longer for Pfizer (i.e. there was much more opportunity for hospitalisations to occur). More recent data from the same study show a 91% reduction in hospital admissions for Pfizer and an 88% reduction for AZ.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00677-2/fulltext?utm_campaign=lancetcovid21&utm_content=163707807&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292

@Rhayader it's likely that everyone who has Astrazeneca as the primary course will need a different booster, due to immunity to the vaccine vector.

Immunity develops to the adenovirus used for the vaccine, meaning that the adenovirus itself is fought off before it can deliver the coronavirus spike protein into the cell.

I'm also someone who has friends in India and I completely disagree. I think it's unbelievable that we're rushing to vaccinate absolutely everyone here, regardless of need. I don't need a vaccine, I am young and very healthy. I don't live in a big city with high transmission and I don't have a busy social life. I would far rather we looked at this globally and tried to help other countries than I felt forced into a vaccine due to the threat of vaccine passports.

I'm 38 and have had my first AZ. Having my second on Monday. I'm slightly anxious but clotting is a huge risk if you actually get covid. The problem is our brains can't calculate risk properly. Getting the jab is still the safest thing to do. If lots of people choose no vaxx (as is their right) the chance of extended lockdowns into the next decade goes on and on. It's risk vs reward. We're not only doing it for ourselves but to get society working again.

The research into the safest options is of course ongoing and the vaxx programme will be tweaked every year

@YukoandHiro

I'm 38 and have had my first AZ. Having my second on Monday. I'm slightly anxious but clotting is a huge risk if you actually get covid. The problem is our brains can't calculate risk properly. Getting the jab is still the safest thing to do. If lots of people choose no vaxx (as is their right) the chance of extended lockdowns into the next decade goes on and on. It's risk vs reward. We're not only doing it for ourselves but to get society working again.

The research into the safest options is of course ongoing and the vaxx programme will be tweaked every year

That's a false equivalence. It's not AZ or no vaxx, it's AZ or Pfizer or Moderna.

I’ve also been watching Prof Makris on Twitter.

He’s questioning why the Winton Centre (the Cambridge body that created the graphic the government used to show the risk calculation for each age group) haven’t updated their graphic, which is now inaccurate. Someone from the Winton Centre has said that they haven’t been given the data yet...

Meanwhile that graphic is still being used to reassure people about AZ.

@Ussernayme

I'm also someone who has friends in India and I completely disagree. I think it's unbelievable that we're rushing to vaccinate absolutely everyone here, regardless of need. I don't need a vaccine, I am young and very healthy. I don't live in a big city with high transmission and I don't have a busy social life. I would far rather we looked at this globally and tried to help other countries than I felt forced into a vaccine due to the threat of vaccine passports.

Exactly. In fact using India as an example can be used the other way. The young and healthy do not need to be vaccinated right now in the UK. It is desperate in India, the vaccinations would be better used by sending them out there and waiting for more information before vaccinating our young.

For those that could cry from reading threads like this, I just don't understand, it is a clear title in the coronavirus forum, don't read it, block it, whatever but don't try and silence what is a reasonable discussion, especially if you are in an age group that other countries are not vaccinating.

@QueenStromba well it is because nobody is offering me the other ones and you can't pay to choose privately in UK either

OP but what about the young and not healthy? I have two underlying conditions... I don't know, I feel anxious but it still feels like the right thing to do.
If I die unexpectedly I will leave two DDs (one only six months and who doesn't take a bottle) so my anxiety is not small fry. I just feel like it's still really important to get done.

@YukoandHiro

OP but what about the young and not healthy? I have two underlying conditions... I don't know, I feel anxious but it still feels like the right thing to do. If I die unexpectedly I will leave two DDs (one only six months and who doesn't take a bottle) so my anxiety is not small fry. I just feel like it's still really important to get done.

Not easy at all and I understand why you feel anxious. Underlying conditions changes the risk scale, my cv sibling feels that the risk from covid greatly outweighs the risk from vaccination.

Honestly though, if I was you and hadn't had the first vaccination I'd be doing everything possible to get an alternative to AZ.

@YukoandHiro

I'm 38 and have had my first AZ. Having my second on Monday. I'm slightly anxious but clotting is a huge risk if you actually get covid. The problem is our brains can't calculate risk properly. Getting the jab is still the safest thing to do. If lots of people choose no vaxx (as is their right) the chance of extended lockdowns into the next decade goes on and on. It's risk vs reward. We're not only doing it for ourselves but to get society working again.

The research into the safest options is of course ongoing and the vaxx programme will be tweaked every year

The official line from my hospital department for my blood clotting disorder is that if the first one went ok then you should have the second. I will be having my second.