Why is the AZ vaccine no longer being offered to under 30s?

[Icancelledthecheque]

Just wondering if I need to be concerned... I potentially have an AZ vaccine tomorrow and I’m 32, so not much older! Does anyone know please?

@Icancelledthecheque

I don’t understand why that risk is perceived to be greater in the under 30s and magically less risky once you hit your 30th birthday

The magic of Maths. I am rubbish at explaining maths but this is the graphic used to explain the decision by MHRA.

wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/news/communicating-potential-benefits-and-harms-astra-zeneca-covid-19-vaccine/

But the over vs under 30 is only on a population level.
I assume you are female, covid is known to affect males worse so already your risk might be less than a 29 yo male.
Your health might be better than a sub 30 person.

I understand they have to draw a line somewhere, they have done so and it's up to you to then manage your personal risk. The government cares about you as a population statistic but if you die as opposed to Mrs blogs next door they wont, that's life.

I have a blood clotting disorder so hoping I am rightfully given Pfizer. If j had a history of allergic reactions I would go for AZ.

I do think a good way to sort it could be that anyone who wants it can have AZ now, that will deplete the stocks of AZ.

I do think a good way to sort it could be that anyone who wants it can have AZ now, that will deplete the stocks of AZ.

A sensible solution

AppleJane

I'm sick of being told I'm scaremongering and I'm more likely to die of 'insert random statistic' just because I'm trying to decide what I want to do.”

I very specifically chose “scaremongering”, AppleJane, because that is precisely what you are doing.
There is endless, easily accessible data out there about the safety of all vaccines. If you are simply trying to decide what to do for yourself, do so. No need to come on here and exaggerate the risk with ridiculous phrases like “Russian roulette” (which is a 1 in 6 chance).
I’m mid fifties, I have veinous insufficiency and regular phlebitis. AZ caused me no problems whatsoever and I can’t wait for my second jab.
What concerns me considerably more is that after mastectomy 4 years ago, I have just been told that the assessment of my annual mammogram on the remaining breast, taken on 2nd of March, was delayed “because of the current circumstances“ and that I now have to go in for a biopsy 8 weeks later than I should have - with potentially god knows what growing inside me.
The sooner everyone is vaccinated and the health service can get back to dealing with the myriad other illness that kill many more people, the better off we will all be.

AppleJane

I don't. I merely want to know (without being guilt tripped or called names) why it is 30 in the UK and 50 elsewhere. That is all. I have constantly said I am happy to be vaccinated. I just want to have all the information to hand as to why the discrepancy. It's actually quite worrying the reaction on this thread to someone who has repeatedly stated she is not anti vaccine.”

Really.
Well if that’s what you want to know, write to your MP or the Health Secretary. Why on earth do you imagine anyone on Mumsnet will be able to answer your question?
(Btw, yes, I gave up meat after my first episode of cancer. No-one is guilt-tripping you. Most people deal in facts).

TuvoknotSpock

I have a blood clotting disorder so hoping I am rightfully given Pfizer. If j had a history of allergic reactions I would go for AZ.“

I have a blood clotting disorder and had no symptoms after AZ.

@DenisetheMenace why are women telling other women that they are not allowed to discuss their concerns on MN but instead should go to their MP? There is a thread on here about women having menstrual changes after the AZ and they were receiving the same reaction too. My concern is for women over 30 who do not want to receive AZ. I didn't realise I needed your permission to discuss that.

@AppleJane

I'm sick of being told I'm scaremongering and I'm more likely to die of 'insert random statistic' just because I'm trying to decide what I want to do. I've already said I'm pro vaccine, I just don't like how our country is proceeding with AZ and I know that's what I'll be offered. I want more information and in the meantime I'm continuing to adhere to all rules and more. Why is that so wrong? All this 'civic duty' nonsense when I've stuck to the rules more than anyone else I know. It feels like being bullied into doing something my gut tells me not to.

my sentiments exactly , i want to have a choice as well , i love the oh but the chances you will get a clot from the AZ are so small its worth having done kind of comments iv seen on these threads as well , thats great to hear , but not obviously as great if you are actually one of this small percentage that winds up dead and your children motherless ! and obviously we all know that there are risks to everyday life . yeah we can get hit by a random bus , but we are not conciously making that choice to though are we ? something these plums that lecture fail to differentiate between

Article in the FT this morning says that the JVCI is reviewing the data again to see if the age limit should be raised to 40.

@chaosrabbitland thank you, your comment has helped me enormously to feel I am not alone and not going mad!

@Schulte that is good news. In light of the fact the current average age of those dying is 47 hopefully they will go a little further and make it 50/60 so we can be treated the same as our European sisters.

Today 05:49 AppleJane

@DenisetheMenace why are women telling other women that they are not allowed to discuss their concerns on MN but instead should go to their MP? There is a thread on here about women having menstrual changes after the AZ and they were receiving the same reaction too. My concern is for women over 30 who do not want to receive AZ. I didn't realise I needed your permission to discuss that.“

You don’t but if as you claim you simply want to know why the cut off is 30 to facilitate your own decision making, why do you imagine that someone on Mumsnet can tell you with complete authority.
Your MP or the department of health can.
And why the “Russian roulette” nonsense? If that’s not scaremongering I don’t know what is.

@DenisetheMenace why is it hard for you to understand that some people have died as a direct result of having the AZ vaccine? And that some people don't want to take that risk, however small?

Many people on MN often can provide valid explanations. The fact that no-one has may make myself and others like me feel better about waiting a couple of weeks.

You don’t get a choice because in this unprecedented, emergency situation, the U.K. doesn’t have that kind of luxury of supply. Is that so very hard to understand?

So if you don’t want AZ, that’s fine, your right to refuse it. Who knows when/if you’ll be offered something else.

All this 'civic duty' nonsense when I've stuck to the rules more than anyone else I know.

You won’t engage with the fact that others have had to put themselves at risk day after day to facilitate you doing this. If everyone refused AZ and wanted to hide in their house until they were offered a ‘better’ option, where would the U.K. be then?

why is it hard for you to understand that some people have died as a direct result of having the AZ vaccine? And that some people don't want to take that risk, however small?

And people don’t die of COVID?

What’s the relative risk?

My dd has had AZ at 22, was fine - it's a 1:250000 risk

AppleJane

@DenisetheMenace why is it hard for you to understand that some people have died as a direct result of having the AZ vaccine? And that some people don't want to take that risk, however small?

It isn’t. I understand completely that a tiny number of people in multi millions have died from an incredibly rare side effect. As a tiny number of people have from extremely rare side effects of vaccinations for decades. Should we stop administering all vaccines?

Far greater numbers will die or become very unwell as a result of Covid if they are put off of vaccinations by taking notice of greatly exaggerated risk from people on the internet with who knows what agenda.

Here’s the diagram used by the JCVI to explain the relative risks and benefits of Covid vs the vaccine. NB that it does not factor in the benefit to the community and the individual of the virus being suppressed. The age bands are of course blunt - presumably there is a continuous curve of Covid and vaccine vulnerability from age 20 all the way up to 120.

The graph does show that the risk from the vaccine is assumed to be higher at younger age groups, though the effect of age isn’t as steep as it is for Covid risk.

Well the first point is to confirm they haven’t stopped offering it. The offer is still there. But they are given the choice to go onto a Pfizer pathway.

Some people are given choices to go onto AZ pathways too, because of allergies.

There is not going to be a choice for people where it is not clinically justified.

from people on the internet with who knows what agenda.

Scaremongering
Agenda
Conspiracy theorists
Selfish

Basically, if you are a woman who still menstruates and have concerns about the AZ vaccine just shut the fuck up or you'll be labelled one of the above. Got it.

Do you want to add dramatic to the list AppleJane? I can't see much difference between the language you use and those you say are labelling women with concerns.

There's lots of emotional language on both "sides" on this thread which I think diminishes its use for anyone wanting to explore the issues.

Did you look at the risk graphic and what did you think of it? Or are you only wanting to engage on an emotional level? Not trying to imply you're the only one doing that.

I don't think it's going to make much difference what you decide as an individual if you're in the UK as confidence in the vaccination programme is currently still high:

twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1385521768882970624

I'm beyond caring @PreachyGreen

I'm constantly looking at the data. One minute the risk is one in a million. Now it's one in 125,000. I'll wait to see what it is next week.

The risk of what though? Not all the clotting events result in death just as not all covid results in death.

I think if you want to decide based on the data then start a new thread with data in the title and there are plenty of posters out there who are good on explaining relative risk (not me!).

If you are feeling overwhelmed by it, just say you want to wait and it's a decision based on your mental health which most people won't question. I think you'll eventually get offered a different vaccine.

Visit the Covid calculator site. If your risk of dying of Covid, (assuming you even catch it which at this moment in time is virtually 0 risk) is less than your risk of dying from the vaccine, don't have it. Common sense, surely. My Covid calculator risk is 1 in 145000 my vaccine risk is 1 in 126000. No brainer.

Does anyone know why the MHRA wont release more details about the cases of clots like age band, gender and the presence of an underlying health condition. But we get this exact breakdown in cases and deaths from Covid.