Are our kids higher risk of 3rd wave?

[3asAbird]

Read upsetting article about 1300 babies dying in Brazil from covid

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56696907?at_custom2=facebook_page&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom4=75B890C2-9DEE-11EB-8A3B-7E2B3A982C1E&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D

I know Brazil has 2 varients that are more transmissible.

Also read lot younger patients in new York.
A lot of younger people seem to be affected by new mutated varients.

We we vaccinate all over 18s that want it.
That the virus mutates and looks for ways to survive.
Won't our non vaccinated children be a greater risk this autumn winter with non socially distanced schools?

The places where life is largely normal, businesses open, shops, bars, restaurants, hospitals.

Not only in SE Asia do such places exist. I’m in mainland Europe and all those things you mention are open, in some form at least. We can only wear FFP2 masks and access certain places with an on-the-day test, but life is fairly normal. Schools and universities were only closed for a few weeks, I’ve been able to do my non-essential job throughout - compare that to my UK colleagues who have lost absolutely all income as their industry has been deemed unsafe. Our businesses have suffered, but aren’t destroyed.

Guess what, our quarantine restrictions are even more relaxed than the UK. You are, however, kept an eye on and required to do multiple tests that are checked by the health authorities during your quarantine. It can be done. Border closure isn’t a solution anymore. Proper government funding and analysis of the local situation is. You can’t compare Europe with Australia. And please don’t say again that the UK is an island and could’ve done the same, because it really isn’t.

@mellongoose

The government really need to keep cases as low as possible - sadly they are not doing this.

How can you argue this?

We have just come out of lockdown but imo the border policies are insufficient to keep cases of variants reliably low.

A snapshot approach to covid doesn't work.

I don't argue with the graph as it stands NOW - but I don't think the government is doing enough to keep things like that.

I see the surge testing in London has been expanded.

In the UK the healthcare and general health is better; if covid is allowed to run uncontrollably through children then there will be bad outcomes for a very much smaller proportion than in Brazil. I do think we will need to vaccinate children and exercise additional caution especially with travel to protect them until then.

What's more important is to understand the impact this disease can have on the rest of the world. Excessive caution about miniscule vaccine risks is tarnishing their image abroad meaning people won't take them, that risks many lives. It puts the UK at risk too, because further strains may emerge if sufficient world population aren't vaccinated. www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/world/europe/western-vaccines-africa-hesitancy.html

Viruses mutate to spread better, not to be more dangerous, although individual mutations are random.

If children become the reservoir for infection, as it seems they will, the virus will mutate to spread effectively in children. It will probably, though, just end up as another winter virus, ripping through schools until herd immunity naturally achieved.

If it were more dangerous to children and younger adults, though, I suspect we would eliminate it pretty quickly, as suddenly everyone got on board with infection control and vaccinating the whole population.

The only way ahead, really, is vaccinating everyone, pretty much gloobally.

I can't remember which one, but an MP said 2/3 weeks ago that we have to be aware the virus could look for ways to mutate among children and those the aren't vaccinated. It was mentioned when talking about the ethics of vaccinating children.

They have said all along this is a concerning time, as there is so much of the population unvaccinated. If we get high transmission again, then conditions will favour any variants which either escape the vaccine or which produce higher viral loads in younger people.

This shouldn't really be news.

It's one of the reason why we might end up with further waves, especially if younger people shun vaccination.

Does anyone know if immunity through vaccination can be passed on through breastfeeding? If so I plan on breastfeeding my 17 month old as long as possible.

@Woodpecker22

Does anyone know if immunity through vaccination can be passed on through breastfeeding? If so I plan on breastfeeding my 17 month old as long as possible.

Pfizer / j&j have said their vaccines do. Az hasn’t confirmed it yet. I’m carrying on bf my 3 yo for this same reason

Thanks EasterIsland. I had the pfizer so that is really reassuring.

You’re welcome. It was in the news few days ago
www.healthline.com/health-news/infants-can-benefit-if-breastfeeding-mothers-are-given-a-covid-19-vaccine

That linked article says the protection via breastfeeding is during the 6 weeks following vaccination (presumable when you are actively producing antibodies in response).

That's interesting. I didn't know congestion was associated with the vaccines at all. I had AZ and DS had a stuffy nose for 2 weeks after my vaccine, as did I. It was mild so I just assumed he caught it at nursery and passed it to me, or I caught it at the vaccine centre and passed it to him. Nobody else got it. On antibodies I just always presumed he'd get them to be honest, breastmilk is magic stuff.

@RoseAndRose

That linked article says the protection via breastfeeding is during the 6 weeks following vaccination (presumable when you are actively producing antibodies in response).

The antibodies will stay longer however, the process is actively priming their immune system rather than a snack.

@MRex

That's interesting. I didn't know congestion was associated with the vaccines at all. I had AZ and DS had a stuffy nose for 2 weeks after my vaccine, as did I. It was mild so I just assumed he caught it at nursery and passed it to me, or I caught it at the vaccine centre and passed it to him. Nobody else got it. On antibodies I just always presumed he'd get them to be honest, breastmilk is magic stuff.

Now that you say that he has been snotty for a few weeks now, but at his age he keeps being on/off :D he had a bad stuffy nose by the end of march I believe and I had my vaccine early march. I've had AZ which there are no conclusions yet related with BF, however, I've assumed that antibodies are passed like the other vaccines hence I feel I'm protecting him (even If I might not be if AZ doesnt pass antibodies)

The antibodies will stay longer however, the process is actively priming their immune system rather than a snack

That's not how transfer of maternal antibodies works. They wane over time, and antibodies do not 'prime' the immune system to recognise the pathogen against which the mother produced them. It's passive immunity

I can't remember which one, but an MP said 2/3 weeks ago that we have to be aware the virus could look for ways to mutate among children

Viruses are not sentient and will not look for anything.
Mutatuons happen entirely at random. If the mutatuon is successful in terms of allowing the virus to reproduce it will take hold. But there is no intent there.

If the mutatuon is successful in terms of allowing the virus to reproduce it will take hold
And what will be successful is any mutation that allows the virus to spread among children. Because everyone else is vaccinated.

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-coronavirus-is-mutating-but-what-determines-how-quickly?cmpid=int_org=ngp::int_mc=website::int_src=ngp::int_cmp=amp::int_add=amp_readtherest

Scientists estimate that that the SARS-cov2 virus mutates around every 11 days. We really shouldn’t be worried about all these stories of mutation, it’s completely normal and actually, as this article shows, most mutations backfire on the virus itself.

The more cynical side of me suspects that we will start seeing more stories like this as the discussion about vaccinating children progresses and they will work to ‘prime’ the general public for acceptance!
It’s always been known that covid doesn’t affect the vast majority of children because those people who have a problem react with an overly accute immune reaction, something an under developed child’s immune system is far less likely to do. These mutations do not change the fact that the virus is still effectively a cold virus.

@RoseAndRose

The antibodies will stay longer however, the process is actively priming their immune system rather than a snack

That's not how transfer of maternal antibodies works. They wane over time, and antibodies do not 'prime' the immune system to recognise the pathogen against which the mother produced them. It's passive immunity

They do not wane within 6 weeks for other vaccines, and there is evidence of breastmilk priming the immune system for better vaccine response with other vaccines such as measles. It isn't a substitute for vaccination by any means, and I don't mean to imply it is, but it is a little bit helpful.

@SteveyFluff

If the mutatuon is successful in terms of allowing the virus to reproduce it will take hold And what will be successful is any mutation that allows the virus to spread among children. Because everyone else is vaccinated.

Everyone else being 75% (OK not all of that 75% will be vaccinated, but the vast majority will be). That's a massive firebreak of spread through the population. The younger the child the more resistant the immune system.and the vast majority experience the virus as a mildish, normal range cold type illness.

We're used to viruses such as flu mutating and updating the vaccines to accomodate those changes from year to year. Generally mutations of viruses get milder with time so the liklihood of it mutating towards just another Coronavirus based cold is favourable.

The worst case scenario a year ago would have been not being able to develop viable vaccines and wait the virus out through our natural exposure and immunity, and hope it mutates/ evolves to have milder effects.

Childhood vaccines for flu are a fairly recent development of the past decade or so. Healthy adults are not vaccinated against flu. We are very used to living with portions of society not vaccinated against contagious viruses that predominantly affect the vulnerable.

@HolmeH

If you read the full article, at no point do they reference a mutant, child killing strain. Rather, it’s accumulation of a variety of factors. The sheer amount of cases they’ve had, extreme poverty & malnutrition and extremely poor medical care. Malnutrition has the same effect on the body as an underlying condition. Their bodies are extremely weak. Plus there will be many children with actual, undiagnosed & untreated underlying conditions.

Children will be vaccinated eventually but there really is no cause for concern in the U.K. Our lives are very different.

This. ^^

I had started to go out a bit with my DC but now we’ll be staying in again

Please don't do this.

As PPs have said, it's not about the strain of virus, more the other factors at play - poverty, poor medical care, malnourishment. Unless your DC have underlying conditions please don't keep them locked up at home.

Exactly @HolmeH for me the most shocking part of the article was his care.

He has 86% oxygen sats and was sent home. DS I remember was admitted due to low oxygen SATS due to a chest infection he had antibiotics and a pump and wasnt allowed to leave hospital until he had stablised. In the UK he would have been admitted then and there

Then the only reason he had any immunoglobin treatment was an adult patient had donated one ampule.

It is a really sad story that shows how much we may malign the NHS just how good it is

The number of kids who has died in Brazil is awful. But as a percentage of all covid deaths its less than 1% were children. So its not like the variant is more dangerous for children, just that so many people have died from it that even a small percentage is a big number of children.
Also an article I read yesterday suggested that one of the issues is they aren't testing kids because "kids don't get covid" so they aren't being treated until its too late. There is no reason to suggest the same would happen here.