Who is still dying?

[MaxHanno]

Do we know who is dying from Covid19 now? Is it still the elderly and clinically vunerable even though they may have been vaccinated? Or is it unvaccinated younger people?

So sorry @Lovelydovey

@Blubellwood

My main point is just that lockdowns weren’t the thing that caused this backlog. The overwhelming number of cases did, that and the fact there was already a backlog pre Covid that is now so muchworse.

Fully agree with this. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t received care/treatment during the pandemic for urgent issues. Even our GPs haven’t hesitated making hospital referrals where deemed urgent and this is from personal experience.

I know of 3 people that are facing a terminal cancer diagnosis because their cases have not been investigated or followed through. One tried for a year to get a face to face doctors appointment and their symptoms kept being dismissed as long covid. The other is a young mum with two DC whose breast cancer is now terminal. If she had been seen in a timely manner she could have received treatment and stood a chance.

So wait we're saying that anything that puts huge pressure on a country's health service - pandemics, war, civil unrest, economic collapse- causes a rise in mortality. What an amazing and unexpected insight.

I bet if we'd known that last year we could have saved so many lives by choosing not to have a pandemic.

[quote GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam]@CarlaH

The hospital produces data ...it's in the local paper...no covid deaths, no one in hospital with covid.

BBC local news also report
The Government covid tracker also shows cases in your council area....none here.[/quote]
Thanks

I have a letter this week in which my emergency GP referral to a consultant has been declined. It states there are no clinics running and that an appointment cannot be offered at this time. I am in chronic pain and have been battling to be seen/speak to a consultant for over a year now.

I have ended up in a and e more than once as this seems the only way to get any help. A and E have also referred me to a consultant and this has been declined as the service is not running.

So, all of you who say you know no-one who has been refused treatment, maybe now you might believe it is actually happening.

My GP is on the case and is hassling the consultant's secretary direct but she says this has happened to countless people over the last year. It really is happening.

It is affecting my daily life and I will be forced to pay for medical care and get into debt to ensure that I am well enough to work and provide for my family.

The 4.7 million people waiting for surgery is an absolute joke. This does not include the people who have been refused treatment and consultations and therefore are not even allowed on the list for surgery, all due to NHS services being closed.

Boris Johnson is apparently encouraging people to seek help and to attend their appointments. It is a complete farce. People are seeking help and being turned away. If I was given an appointment, I would be there like a shot. I am desperate.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/13/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-virus/

I thought the above article was quite interesting. It is behind a paywall but you can read much of it. Many people have been saying this for months and months and told they were wrong.

It's weird. Even Chris Whitty has been saying this, JVT spelled it out carefully and clearly a few times.

The criteria has been changed at least once. We KNOW that deaths are over reported because of the difficulties in determined cause of death in community cases.

We KNOW, again because of various podium talks, that excess mortality data will, eventually, be the most infomrative data we will have, that every country will have.

And yet still the accusations of lying, obfuscating, fearmongering continue.

We either have not enough detailed data - which many can't analyse anyway - or we have to much data and are being drwoned init, manipulated by it.

And still the usual, always been there, data is available for anyone who cares to look at the ONS and other public data streams.

That the ONS have this data and have publised at, as they do whole tranches of other data, is how they work. It is updated every time they get enough data to correct for confounding variables.

They are doing this in real time. They can either gie us the daily reported data and correct it later - leading to accusations of incompetanc and fearmongering - or they can wait for the adjustments to be made, leading to accusations of hiding things, lying etc.

Again, we have had these adjustments explained again and again.

It REALLY isn't news!

The data adjutsment is... but not the fact that it happens.

@Moonstone1234

I heard that there have been no flu deaths this winter. Just CV19 deaths. Surely that cannot be right. Please tell me I have misunderstood something

It’s possible that it hasn’t been able to spread, due to the Covid restrictions. The covid deaths are obviously many more than the usual flu deaths. Is that what you’re getting at?

So without the covid restrictions there would have been more covid deaths and the usual flu deaths. I think RTAs are also down. (But less suicides and deaths caused by late diagnosed cancers.)