Who is still dying?

[MaxHanno]

Do we know who is dying from Covid19 now? Is it still the elderly and clinically vunerable even though they may have been vaccinated? Or is it unvaccinated younger people?

That Covid causes heart attacks has been well documented. Doctors and scientists are just 'somebody on the internet'.

For every Covid death that was 'with' rather than from covid, there are all those not recorded as covid that should be.

It's the excess deaths figures that tell the true story.

My cousin died of Covid a few weeks ago, 4 weeks after her vaccine. Cousin was 49 and clinically vulnerable - but not clinically extremely vulnerable - due to diabetes and a history of multiple brain tumours.

Left behind 5 children, the youngest of whom is 7 years old.

I'm so sorry for your loss @FeedMeSantiago Those poor children.

This is why it's so important to remain cautious until the majority have had both vaccine doses.

Separately, I've said all along that diabetics particularly those over 45 should've been shielded. Awful. So young.

Many of the people dying in hospital now have been there for a really long time.

Barely anyone but still people are very scared.

Even during the height of death figures as someone up thread said a quarter were dying from other things yet also had covid and average age 82 so over normal life expectancy as well..... still the fear, just in case.

Now that the NHS is not swamped the government has to make people less fearful....going by some on here that will be immensely rough going.

No deaths in our hospital since January...no cases in our area.

Huge number of people in the risk categories vaccinated

@GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam

Barely anyone but still people are very scared.

Even during the height of death figures as someone up thread said a quarter were dying from other things yet also had covid and average age 82 so over normal life expectancy as well..... still the fear, just in case.

Now that the NHS is not swamped the government has to make people less fearful....going by some on here that will be immensely rough going.

No deaths in our hospital since January...no cases in our area.

Huge number of people in the risk categories vaccinated

How do you know how many deaths in a particular hospital or that there are no cases at all in your area.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

It has become really popular on here to call people right wing if they have an opinion that doesn't support endless lockdowns.

If you don't like the telegraph feel free to read the same information in any other newspaper. Or take a look at the ONS data yourself.

Very true

@CarlaH

The hospital produces data ...it's in the local paper...no covid deaths, no one in hospital with covid.

BBC local news also report
The Government covid tracker also shows cases in your council area....none here.

I too think the figures are bullshit. People dying from other issues, being attributed to covid because they had it 28 days, is just bollocks.

@Oblomov21

I too think the figures are bullshit. People dying from other issues, being attributed to covid because they had it 28 days, is just bollocks.

Can I ask you though...... would you not accept that someone over 85 has died of Covid, even though they could have had another 5/10 years worth of life, even with heart or other similar elderly complaints, that are not necessarily imminently terminal?

From all the scientific info I've read, Covid can attack the organs, like the heart. So when people say "Person A died "with" Covid, not of" that would then include anyone who had heart problems which were n
ormally managed with pills, who had another couple of decades ahead of them, but whose heart was further weakened by Covid, so they ended up dying of heart failure.
They might only have died "with" it, but "without" it they might have lived much longer lives, thanks to modern medicine.

Thank you for explaining it much better than me @duffeldaisy

Oh no Tealightsandd, thank you! - if any of us were explaining it that well, then maybe people would stop repeating the "it's not very serious" line!

@givemushypeasachance

The NHS really isn't 'largely closed' this time around, especially now. My dad had non-emergency cataract surgery in the middle of lockdown three! And I have a doctor family member who is involved in specialist cancer surgery in London, and he's still been working on that throughout.

IME it's a lot of the services that would be used for early diagnosis that have been closed, which is what will lead to more deaths. Massive waiting at my hospital for MRIs etc because they closed and now there's backlog

Well I have just been referred to hospital on a 2ww wait pathway abd my appointment was within a week. No long waits for anything really. Had routine smears and other scans etc. Not everywhere has shut up shop. 3 people I know in totally different areas with cancer have received treatment and surgery etc as required.

They might only have died "with" it, but "without" it they might have lived much longer lives, thanks to modern medicine.

You don't know that for definite though do you @duffeldaisy

Some people can die of heart failures and other illnesses before Covid came along.

We do not know for certain if Covid contributed to their death, so people flinging over 100,000 deaths in our faces for us to comply and not question, it's inaccurate and in my opinion, shocking and disturbing.

@ClashCityRocker

@Blubellwood

Yes delays caused by being overrun by cases. The nhs can’t very much help that. Services are now getting up and running wherever possible. They’re not sitting idle for the sake of it they’re working to catch up. And it’s taking time because of extra distancing and cleaning measures etc.

If we’d locked down sooner each time, the problem would have been much smaller.

Have a look over in AIBU.

Look for a thread "I hate what Covid has done to our health system".

Theres someone who's in chronic pain and waiting for an operation, the waiting list is over a year. So she will have to live in a pain and lose her job while she waits.

People aren't making this shit up you know.

Yes exactly. Healthcare is suffering because the government put international travel above everything else.

40% of UK covid cases were caught in hospital. Whilst it's spreading, it's impossible to have safe care even if the hospital and staff aren't overwhelmed.

Places with strict border restrictions and real quarantine are providing healthcare as normal.

I heard that there have been no flu deaths this winter. Just CV19 deaths. Surely that cannot be right. Please tell me I have misunderstood something

@Northernsoulgirl45

Well I have just been referred to hospital on a 2ww wait pathway abd my appointment was within a week. No long waits for anything really. Had routine smears and other scans etc. Not everywhere has shut up shop. 3 people I know in totally different areas with cancer have received treatment and surgery etc as required.

And i know a 31 year old woman who died last month of aggressive cancer that was missed due to GP refusal to see her and the delay in tests and then treatment. Everyone will have anecdotal evidence one way or the other.

@Vooga that is very sad indeed. That GP surgery was very wrong.
In terms of flu deaths I found this. Unfortunately flu and Pneumonia are not split. But this data will be available later.

www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/read-this/how-many-flu-deaths-there-have-been-england-so-far-2020-compared-covid-19-2998177

My DM passed away from covid last week (on death certificate). She first developed symptoms on Xmas day and had had 3 separate hospitalisations for covid totalling 8 weeks. She’d actually tested negative 3 times in a row and had seemed to be improving but then tested positive again after shortly after her vaccination. She not only had scarring in her lungs, but had covid related heart damage and a blood clot in her lung due to covid.

So in my view - some of these deaths will have a significant lead time between infection and passing away.

@Lovelydovey I'm sorry for your loss