Illegally obtaining jabs

[Kijaji]

What do people think about lying pretending to be a carer to get a COVID jab? A friend of mine who is in their early 20's has done exactly this and is pushing me to do the same, I am so shocked that this is happening and actually disgusted at said friend for blatantly lying just to get the jab as they have holidays booked abroad later on in the year!

@WombatChocolate my DC became eligible two weeks ago as they share a household with me as an immunosuppressed person. I have made at least 10 phone calls to my GP and 119 and cannot make appointments for them. It is infuriating when you hear liars are getting theirs before those who should be.

@Marcia1989 yes due to them being under 18. You can't assume queue jumpers had Astra Zeneca.

Yes, I know several people who have lied and said they are carers who have now had their first dose. I was very surprised when I heard they just had to go online and tick a box. I’m an actual unpaid carer and received a letter from my GP and had presumed that was the only way.

Regarding risk levels, the risk of a 25 and 45 year old is much more similar, than say a 65 and 45 year old.

It was those over 50 and especially over 65 who displayed more risk. The risk did not drop in equal increments due to age.

Of course age isn’t the only factor and some 50s are in better health and less risk than some upper 40s or even 30s, but OVERALL ON A BROAD BASIS the rough age risks apply. There have to be cut offs. Someone will always just creep in or miss out.

The lack of supply is a real shame. Without that I’d think the upper 40sand most 40s would have had it by now. But, supply has been limited and thus was where we had got to with rollout. Let’s hope supply rises soon and we can quickly push ahead .

@Rillington

ALL the priority groups have not heard back done at all. My DC are in group 6 and cannot get booked in due to a shortage of Pfizer in our area. Anyone who has obtained a vaccine illegally should be ashamed of themselves.

@Marcia1989 I am immunosuppressed and my DC who live with me cannot get done. So it's not fine that your friend lied. Not on at all.

Sounds like someone is being fussy rather than there necessarily being an overall problem with supply locally.

They stopped doing first doses of Pfizer much early than AZ because of second doses / concerns over imports.

Pfizer is only at centralised locations because of storage too. AZ vaccination points are generally more accessible.

I think it's the fault of the system. If they had just opened booking to 45-49 (and then 40-45) then a lot of this would not have been possible.
Clearly there was enough capacity to open vaccinations to those under 50, but the obsession with getting every single last person, even if it required several calls to persuade them, is bizarrely a reason why the US will end up with more vaccinated adults than us. There it is already pretty much available to anyone.

Here the over-restriction of supply in the same week as we shipped 700,000 vaccines to Australia (who have almost no Covid and even have their own vaccine manufacturing capacity) created the ideal circumstances for people to try to get around the system.

It probably started with desperate 40-somethings, and then younger people heard about it and started doing it too.

Why are some group 1-9 still booking? I'm guessing some people had the same issues I did. No slots available. We know there's huge regional variation in supply.

Some people will be added late. Newly diagnosed, birthdays taking them from 49 to 50, GP admin error missing them or incorrectly recording them, vulnerable people who are insecurely housed who have to frequently move areas, people away from home for work or caring responsibilities or fleeing domestic abuse.

The system doesn't always update immediately. Someone might've been added by their GP several weeks ago but the national system takes time.

Also, I've seen a few posters here say they couldn't attend their original appointment because they got ill (covid or something else). When they tried to rebook there were no free slots. Perhaps because other people lied and took the available slots...

The system is complex and there are all kinds of local considerations and variations.

A bit more info would be useful for the public to aid our understanding of what’s going on, but I think we have to accept we can’t know it all because there’s just too much to know in a very complex picture. Decisions are made for the mass good and speed of rollout as well as trying to address some of the inequality issues in society. Understanding all of these or all agreeing with the chosen priorities just isn’t possible. Therefore not trying to fully explain it and then needing to justify it makes sense. If MN were left to decide the rollout we would have multiple conflicting plans. You can’t please all and not everyone agrees about the best system.

They are trying to rollout speedily. They are trying to maintain jab confidence.they are trying to boost the gov reputation. They are trying to deal with lumpy supply. They are trying to ensure all 2bd doses happen. They are trying to deal with new info arriving about factors that put people at risk. They are trying to address variable take-up and evidence of Covid becoming focused in areas of deprivation. They are trying not to over promise and under deliver. They are trying to run mass centres to deliver volume. They are trying to offer local jabs. They are trying to rollout fast. They are trying to follow up those who dont book.

It is complex.

@couldnotshould

I think it's the fault of the system. If they had just opened booking to 45-49 (and then 40-45) then a lot of this would not have been possible. Clearly there was enough capacity to open vaccinations to those under 50, but the obsession with getting every single last person, even if it required several calls to persuade them, is bizarrely a reason why the US will end up with more vaccinated adults than us. There it is already pretty much available to anyone.

Here the over-restriction of supply in the same week as we shipped 700,000 vaccines to Australia (who have almost no Covid and even have their own vaccine manufacturing capacity) created the ideal circumstances for people to try to get around the system.

It probably started with desperate 40-somethings, and then younger people heard about it and started doing it too.

I don't believe the US will end up with more vaccinated adults in the US than the UK.

The US haven't had the same priority system - it seems to be far more random because there is no centralised healthcare system and many don't have health insurance at all.

The UK has exceptionally high uptake in those eligible for the vaccine. For the over 65s we are above 90% uptake. I believe the US is closer to 75% for the over 65s though many more have had second doses. For the 50 - 64 year old group its 50% uptake in the US. I think it will be much harder to reach those who haven't taken a vaccine in older age groups in the US in the long run.

You have also got a really wide disparity between states (with red states generally behind blue ones). We don't have such political divisions.

There absolutely is an increased risk for the over 40s (and particularly 45+). The government and SAGE haven't denied this, and in fact noted it last week during the media fuss over the extremely rare side effect blood clots (that are more commonly caused by covid itself).

There may be little difference in risk between a 25 and a 30 year old, but there's definitely a huge difference in risk between a 25 and a 45 year old.

Throughout the pandemic, reports have noted the lower number of deaths under 40. Israel prioritised 40+, India is prioritising 45+. The NHS has been doing health checks at 40 for years. 40s is a time when underlying conditions commonly develop. Many people in their 40s will have undiagnosed conditions.

It also seems to be the case that peri menopausal women are the highest risk group for long covid.

I’m donning my hard hat for this (and a name change!) to admit that I’ve done this. I’m not hugely proud of it, but it was after being utterly dismissed by my GP. I have lupus and had pneumonia after flu in 2019 which then meant I developed fibromyalgia. Since then I’ve not been able to work, I’m pretty poorly and have a persistent cough that I’ve been told was a result of the pneumonia (and nothing to worry about, but debilitating). I’ve shielded all year.

However, when the vaccines started rolling out, my GP told me that lupus wasn’t a risk factor and that it only edges me one group above my age group anyway (30s). In my area they haven’t got to 40s yet even. However, I was prepared to accept this as the rule-abider I usually am. DP is a police officer and kids are in school but we’ve been careful and, as I say, I’ve shielded.

However in Jan and Feb ALL of my siblings, siblings in law and a few friends began to be offered the vaccine, generally for very mild, often childhood asthma. Of the 7 people I’m talking about here 6 aren’t even medicated for it. Then at the beginning of Feb DP got the call and when he enquired why (he’s totally healthy) GP said it was because he had TESTS for coeliac disease a few years ago. Just tests, he isn’t actually a coeliac.

At this point I spoke to GP and was totally dismissed. I’m on 12 separate drugs a day but was told neither my illnesses or drugs are a risk factor. I got in touch with practice manager and it was a whole process, still told no and to get stuffed.

A couple of weeks later I caught a virus which didn’t appear to be either Covid or flu but which laid me up terribly for almost a month. I felt dreadful and had mad, dangerous fevers which winded me up in A&E. in hospital a doctor looking at my record asked if I’d been vaccinated. I said no. He couldn’t believe it but said the way it’s being given out and decided who gets it is quite inconsistent and a bit random. Advised me that it was as easy as saying you’re a carer if you Google it, not that he was telling me I should, wink wink. So I did. And I got the vaccine, first dose on March 23.

Not my finest hour and I know what I’ve done is abuse and that there’s an argument that I’ve jumped the queue. But the system they’re using is fucked and even the A&E doc was saying that.

If they’ve now closed the loophole then fair enough. But the loophole was there and I did take it.

you cannot lie to be a carer. My surgery either wants carers allowance and of you don't get it, you need to prove otherwise that the person you are caring for is disabled and that you care for them. I had to provide DLA paperwork for my disabled child and a letter from a local charity supporting families with disabilities stating that I am indeed my DC's main carer. I cannot see how you get around it.

With millions getting vaccinated every week, its hardly going to impact the the rollout, is it? Dont you have something better to be irate about?

@TinHat1234 I don’t blame you for this. The system cannot work perfectly for everyone and sometimes you have to look after yourself. I think at the time this was possible it was a weird limbo when they had officially planned to stop first appointments but actually there was a lot of jab left going to randoms like me (on a reserve list).

Bizarrely paid carers had to show proof of eligibility at their appt, while unpaid carers could self declare by ticking a box on the booking system and were not required to show proof. The self-declare facility has now been withdrawn but if people are on their Gp lists as carers they should still be able to book through the national system and don't have to wait for an appt at their practice.

Bizarrely paid carers had to show proof of eligibility at their appt, while unpaid carers could self declare by ticking a box on the booking system and were not required to show proof.

that is not true. You needed to be in receipt of carers allowance to book online. I don't get CA as I work and could not book. Neither online nor via 119. Unpaid carers not getting carers allowance had to go via GP and needed to evidence their caring responsibilities. it was not straight forward for me and many other parents of disabled kids.

I couldn't care less quite honestly. When I went to be vaccinated a few weeks ago the place was empty. I booked the night before and could have had any time slot I wanted. I don't think anyone is getting bumped down a queue. There is no queue. They should vaccinate anyone who wants it now IMO.

Fighting - it wad true for a few weeks then the loophole was closed.

@Hotcuppatea that may be true for your area it certainly isn't true for mine. They have cancelled any appointments for under 30's for the foreseeable future. No matter what priority group they are in. There is a vaccine shortage.

[quote Rillington]@Hotcuppatea that may be true for your area it certainly isn't true for mine. They have cancelled any appointments for under 30's for the foreseeable future. No matter what priority group they are in. There is a vaccine shortage.[/quote]
It's true where I live. They're offering it to literally anyone who wants it

@hotcuppatea have you read the thread and how many 40 somethings are still waiting? Of course there's a queue! It makes no difference how busy the vaccination centre was - you're not going to be at the vaccination centre if you're not allowed to book a vaccine! I am in Bham and there is no rollout whatsoever to U50s. We really need the rollout to crack on here, to keep a lid on cases, especially given that there will continue to be more vaccine refusal in some areas of the city.

I would quite like to do the opposite and give mine away, assuming I get the vaccine passport :-)

Feel free to PM me if anyone wants one now!

I know of a couple of people who've somehow 'pulled strings' to get theirs early and will forever more think of them in a similar way to those who pushed in to get places in the lifeboats on the Titanic!

I'm being slightly tongue in cheek ... at least they're done. I just wish we all were.