People Refusing Astra Zeneca - What Happens?

[Nootkah]

I've seen an increasing number of people on here and on social media saying they'll go to their mass vaccination centre appointment but if it's Astea Zeneca, they'll refuse. I'm curious as to what actually happens next? They've had an appointment, been offered a vaccine that remains approved for their group, and have declined. Are they "ticked off" the list as "offered" or do they stay at the top of the list for upcoming appointments and continue to be invited?

@Dissimilitude well said

The people benefitting from the unease and bad press around the AZ vaccine are the anti-vaxxers and Covid conspiracy theorists. Not the general public and the economy

Yep - you only have to look at MN over the past week to see evidence of this. So many new or name changed posters flooding threads and ratcheting up fear. People seem to be being far more rational in real life, though.

Would ask my doctor if there was any way of actually getting any communication with one at all, at my practice have a phone consultant in 3 weeks about medication so obviously I will ask then, and for the usual sarcastic comments from the know it all twats, aren’t we all random people on random threads 🤔 really bright aren’t you 🥱

I still find it completely perplexing that some EU countries are choosing to restrict AZ against their own EU EMA advice and continue to say they are following the science/advice. They are not.

Then, they say they will offer alternative second vaccines. For which there is NO trial data yet. So how can that be in line with science/advice. It isn't.

And then, they are suggesting the adoption of Sputnik, for which, yes, once again, there is NO trial data, no approval, and science/advice.

Personally, I wouldn't be following many other countries decision making at the moment.

I think some posters are very dismissive of people's concerns -
I am aware that blood clots from AZ are extremely rare but after being the 1 in x tens thousands experiencing a health related issue I am also aware that low risk is not no risk.

It is very hard to understand BigWoolly, especially France's decision on second jabs for under 55s. I know I am probably sliding into conspiracy theory territory here, but I keep wondering why all the focus is sorelentlessly on a vaccine that is currently not for profit.

More will become clear in the weeks ahead.

@pinkearedcow

The people benefitting from the unease and bad press around the AZ vaccine are the anti-vaxxers and Covid conspiracy theorists. Not the general public and the economy

Yep - you only have to look at MN over the past week to see evidence of this. So many new or name changed posters flooding threads and ratcheting up fear. People seem to be being far more rational in real life, though.

Absolutely

It’s annoying to see but mostly on SM / mn rather than rl

@TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness

I think some posters are very dismissive of people's concerns - I am aware that blood clots from AZ are extremely rare but after being the 1 in x tens thousands experiencing a health related issue I am also aware that low risk is not no risk.

There are risks with all the covid vaccines, as well as with all other vaccines, any medication, NSAIDs etc. All those have a rare incidence of thrombocytopenia - check the side effects of paracetamol or aspirin. There are also far greater risks of catching and becoming unwell from covid if you have no vaccine. You can of course to fret over a particular little risk and ignore how it exists elsewhere, as well as ignoring other much bigger risks, that's your prerogative, but then you really mustn't be surprised if others choose to say that you're being illogical.

I volunteered at a site on Friday.
Nobody knew what they were getting, even the staff didn’t know till that morning.
People coming in were asking what we had, it was Pfizer but I bet many would have turned away if they learnt it was Az. This is going to be a logistical nightmare.

If you don't have a blood clotting condition then do some basic maths. The risk is tiny. While most seem to stupid to get that covid may not kill but it can wreck your life, they panic about this small risk.

Cancel your appointment and leave the jabs for those who can think. Help the species.

I don't think people are being dismissive of people's concerns- of course people should consider the benefits and risks and obviously people should have proper information on side effects in order to make their decisions but when medical professionals and not just randomers on Mumsnet are saying that the risks of the virus are considerably more than the vaccine, it doesn't really make much sense for most people to then choose not to be vaccinated? I don't understand it.

The risk of the virus is low for most people but nowhere near as low as the vaccine- that's quite clear after over a year of seeing what the virus can do?

@TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness

I think some posters are very dismissive of people's concerns - I am aware that blood clots from AZ are extremely rare but after being the 1 in x tens thousands experiencing a health related issue I am also aware that low risk is not no risk.

I am absolutely dismissive of people's concerns because they are ludicrous. You cannot cut out risk from your life. Are these people who are peddling this scaremongering shite advocating that we all stop taking any drugs because of the possible side effects they all have? Are they suggesting we all stop getting into a car or crossing the road? Of course not. Cut the crap, take the vaccines and be grateful for them.

I strongly suspect that this won't be just AZ. They are already looking at some reports for J&J.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-09/eu-regulator-investigating-blood-clots-after-j-j-covid-vaccine
Get the jab folks, it's an incredibly low risk.

I can't remember which thread I mentioned it on but my friend at 25 has had a blood clot and can't take combined contraceptives and has also reacted badly to other medications. I think it's totally valid for someone in that position to have concerns and I'm glad she'll get a choice- I'm sure her dr will be the best person to ask though!

For people with no medical reason not to accept whatever jab they are offered it does seem strange that the risks of coronavirus seem more appealing than the tiny risk of the vaccine.

I don't want to wait and see- whilst waiting I could catch coronavirus. I feel like the benefits and risks are quite clear with AZ more so than other vaccines at this stage given how many have been vaccinated with it.

My first child was born at the beginning of what was expected to be a whooping cough epidemic- I was literally a week away from her birth when I had a whooping cough vaccine. As I child, it was the only vaccination I didn't have- my mum reacted badly to the whooping cough vaccine and when she asked about me the dr advised for me not to have it. When I was pregnant with my daughter they advised me that it would definitely be best to have it. So I did- and it was absolutely fine.

I'm just trying to make the point that we have to weigh up risks and benefits all the time- presumably there was a risk in my decision then, especially given I was pregnant- but it was very small and the right thing for me to do. I hoped that it would give DD some protection although probably wasn't enough time to cross the placenta but who knows. It's like this though- I'm also glad that by me having the vaccine it helps protect the people around me too which also makes the tiny risk even more worthwhile.

It's a very rare side effect
It is, and the government has dealt with the situation incredibly poorly. It’s been made to sound like “AZ is dangerous enough for us to say that young healthy people shouldn’t have it, but you oldies have to accept it”. Because then people go “Well why am I worth less than a 25 year old? Screw you - if it’s not good enough for them then it’s not good enough for me either!”

When in actual fact the vaccine will still be given to under 30s and they’ll only have a choice “if an alternative is available”, which it may not be. And there are equal risks with other vaccines which haven’t been highlighted.

@MimiPigeon
I agree. If you look at the cases of blood clots following vaccination the oldest female was 63 and the oldest male 57. I can therefore understand why other Eu countries are saying 'ok until we know more we are restricting the AZ vaccine to over 60s or over 65s or whatever'. Makes sense to me.

And I have looked at the information from USA re blood clots and Pfizer and there are a handful and many million more doses so this does seem to be more of an AZ issue ...

@Noname99

I shall find out tomorrow! There is apparently no way of finding out which vaccine is on offer beforehand so I shall have to turn up to my appointment tomorrow; if it’s AZ I will decline and ask what my options are.

The people at the vaccine centre are not best placed to tell you what your options are. Just cancel the appointment in advance and decide how you intend to proceed in your own time.

@MrsFezziwig

To be fair to @Noname99
She doesn’t want to cancel if it’s Pfizer of Moderna. Having worked at a vaccination centre I honestly don’t know how it’s going to work out to get people on lists for particular vaccines. Going to mess things up entirely!

@Dissimilitude

People are so, so bad at quantifying the level of risk. It's minuscule, certainly far lower than many of the treatments or drugs people routinely take without a seconds thought.

I spoke to a GP friend about this the other day, her sentiments were rather unsympathetic!

Along the lines of "if people don't want to take AZ, fine, then don't, I can't force them, but I don't have time to hold their hands trying to make them feel better about a tiny risk. People seem to expect me to stay on the phone for ages listening endlessly to their fears, whilst ignoring everything I'm telling them".

Be an adult about it. Get the vaccine, or if you can't face it, don't and step aside for someone who will.

I happened to have a phone appointment with my GP this morning. I asked her if certain specifics put me at greater risk from AZ as my vaccination is next week. She thought not, so I took her advice. This took less than five minutes and I believe it was worth the time it took and I imagine so does she.

@BigWoollyJumpers

I still find it completely perplexing that some EU countries are choosing to restrict AZ against their own EU EMA advice and continue to say they are following the science/advice. They are not.

Then, they say they will offer alternative second vaccines. For which there is NO trial data yet. So how can that be in line with science/advice. It isn't.

And then, they are suggesting the adoption of Sputnik, for which, yes, once again, there is NO trial data, no approval, and science/advice.

Personally, I wouldn't be following many other countries decision making at the moment.

It's very convenient timing. It's not as if the under 30s/40s/50s (depending which country) would be getting it any time soon - extremely rare side effects or not. Supply is in desperately short supply across the world. The EU is still determined to block exports of it. They haven't got enough. Nor do we.

This is why the vaccines should also be offer privately. The more choice the more people would accept to get the jab.

There isn't enough to offer on the NHS. How can they offer privately? When supplies increase, sometime in the future, maybe, but for the time being demand far outstrips supply.

I'd be grateful for anything, just wish they'd hurry up and get round to my age group, I'm early forties and happy to take astrazeneca.

Thank you frazzled2207
It’s utterly ridiculous but absolutely symptomatic of the authoritarian state that some seem to want where we are not allowed to know what vaccine we are being offered .... just supposed to be grateful for being given any drug the govt sees fit with no questions asked. I’m as desperate as anyone to get out of lockdown and back to some sort of normal but I simply can not believe the response of people in MN .... I’m just grateful that IRL people are less foolish. This vaccine is virtually untested on under 50s and yet there is almost total acceptance from the public. I simply do nit understand and in any other drug or vaccine trail .... it oils be halted. But apparently under 50s are expendable the greater good.

Oils = would be halted due to the emergent data