Why did the U.K. regulator not know of these issues sooner?

[Roonerspismed]

Look, I get that medicines all have rare side effects. I get that.

But why did our regulator seem completely ignorant on the numbers? They said we had what - 5 cases - and it wasn’t the same issue here. For weeks.

Various EU and non EU countries had already picked up on it - weeks in advance.

We still said we didn’t have the numbers. Then it seems like last week they did more diligence and checked and we found lots more.

So - assuming the MHRA hasn’t deliberately hidden matters which I don’t think they have - then how is our data assessed? If we had 65 cases of this rare clotting issue in various U.K. hospitals shortly after a vaccine, why wasn’t this picked up/recorded/asked/reported? How are doctors and hospitals advised on this?

Why isn’t this being asked in the media? Isn’t this an absolutely massive deal? How can we have trust in the system?

There are now lots of women alleging menstrual changes. A lesser issue perhaps but still a big deal for those TTC or not - what is happening to those cases?

How can I gain trust in the system?

@aliellerb

I shouldn't have been given this jab either, advice published yesterday says my condition is advised against having it (I have a blood clotting disorder and history of DVT). I'm terrified now and cross as I raised my concerns prior to the first one with my doctor and was told it was nonsense. Wish I'd waited for another vaccine.

I quite understand your logic and wish to have waited for a different vaccine. But if you had done so then at the time the majority including most posters on MN as well as even the medical profession (as you witnessed) would have dismissed you (wrongly) as some anti vaxx, Covid denying, granny killer.

It's very easy to blame the Government and the media about ignoring the concerns on the AZ vaccine by the more enlightened minority. But the truth is the Government and media view was backed by the majority of the public at the time.

It's very easy to blame the Government and the media about ignoring the concerns on the AZ vaccine by the more enlightened minority. But the truth is the Government and media view was backed by the majority of the public at the time.

That is a circular argument. The "public" does not form its opinion in a vacuum.

@1dayatatime - I'm not sure the public at large are qualified to back one set of excellent scientists over another. The majority backed what the MHRA/Government were saying because they sadly seem to believe everything they are told. Public backing is never and indicator of good science.

There's a good article on the different regulatory approaches here www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/telling-europes-approach-astrazeneca-jab-differs/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Yes it’s a decent summary but I now think the U.K. doesn’t have a very robust reporting system.

Thank goodness the Germans do!

I feel sad reading down the coronavirus board.
People having problems with headaches, missed periods, anxious people etc.

Imo, people have been too eager to trust scientists, media, government on all of this.
Those bodies should all have said, a lot more readily, and a lot sooner, that there is much that they dont know. Instead of constantly trying to be upbeat and reassuring.

@lightand

I feel sad reading down the coronavirus board. People having problems with headaches, missed periods, anxious people etc.

Imo, people have been too eager to trust scientists, media, government on all of this.
Those bodies should all have said, a lot more readily, and a lot sooner, that there is much that they dont know. Instead of constantly trying to be upbeat and reassuring.

Isn't that quite right, but to be-honest anyone who criticises the vaccine is labeled as an anti-vaxxer....

Alot of health and social care workers have not taken the vaccine, as they are also concerned about long-term side effects, particularly as its new technology. The MSM and public responded by insisting they should be forced....?

However the pressure from society, for this to work, is so high that any critics are silcened. This has suppressed the honesty from government.

When anyone who knows pharmaceutical companies, would not trust them to be-honest. Hence the long drawn out processes.

I'm not stating that the vaccine is going to lead to negative outcomes, just that it is a risk.

@lightand its also sad reading about all those that have died if covid as well and after speaking to some health professionals what they have seen and dealt with
Nothing is good about this

There certainly have been other causes of death, Bookworm, if you've been following the yellow-card reports as I have. 472 deaths following the AZ vaccine so far and many very serious side-effects, all brushed under the carpet by the media and our medics.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977006/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf

Death following a vaccine isn’t the same as death caused by a vaccine, particularly when the vaccine was rolled out first to the elderly and clinically extremely vulnerable.

And AZ isnt the only vaccine - all of them have the same because as Noble says it was elderly and vulnerable

[quote SmallTownSouthernGirl]There certainly have been other causes of death, Bookworm, if you've been following the yellow-card reports as I have. 472 deaths following the AZ vaccine so far and many very serious side-effects, all brushed under the carpet by the media and our medics.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977006/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf[/quote]
Astonishing link

@noblegiraffe

Death following a vaccine isn’t the same as death caused by a vaccine, particularly when the vaccine was rolled out first to the elderly and clinically extremely vulnerable.

I agree. Same principle for COVID itself.

@lightand yes, jaw dropping figures really. About five minutes ago I was looking through the government's Contracts Finder website and came across an awarded contract for 1000 AED Machines (defibs) for vaccination sites. I thought it was a bit odd but seeing those myocardial Infarction stats it makes sense.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Google the same for Pfizer that has 302 just google Case Series Drug Analysis Print Pfizer (cant link)

Astonishing link

What do you think the list looks like for a similar group of people who didn't have the vaccine? Because it would be pretty much the same.

Well actually, that's not strictly true. There'd be more deaths, because of covid.

@reformedcharacters That is how they get the data. All vaccine trials have stages starting from a small group, then on larger groups etc. The final stage is roll out to the population and is considered part of the trial. I didn't know that til I trained as a vaccinator.

Drugs and vaccines have side effects - every single one of them. Paracetomol could be fatal/serious side effects simply by forgetting dosage and taking 2-3 tablets over the recommended amount.

None of them come without risks - and the vaccines are no exception - and the number of reactions given the number given is I think within the range of expected normal.

Anyone who thinks that these things dont carry risks clearly has never read any of the bumpf that comes with taking any medication!

COVID I think really has meant we are looking into these things far more than before.

[quote btwwhichonespink]@lightand yes, jaw dropping figures really. About five minutes ago I was looking through the government's Contracts Finder website and came across an awarded contract for 1000 AED Machines (defibs) for vaccination sites. I thought it was a bit odd but seeing those myocardial Infarction stats it makes sense.[/quote]
That’s really interesting, where are the stats?
My otherwise healthy DM had her AZ vaccination and then 12 hours later had a massive heart attack. Found a big clot on the right side of her heart. She is so lucky to be with us right now.

[quote SmallTownSouthernGirl]There certainly have been other causes of death, Bookworm, if you've been following the yellow-card reports as I have. 472 deaths following the AZ vaccine so far and many very serious side-effects, all brushed under the carpet by the media and our medics.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977006/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf[/quote]
So sorry to hear that about your mum :-( I hope she recovers quickly.

The stats I was referring to are in the latest adverse events analysis for AstraZeneca posted in the quote above

That was to @FloraFauna27

Can only agree with those questioning our regulatory bodies.

It’s ok going on about the ‘minuscule’ chance of serious complications now in comparison to Covid but we have no idea about the possible medium/longer term consequences here. This is a punt, taken in desperation to get society rolling again because it’s costing us a billion quid every day.

Wonder what the yellow card stats currently are?

@noblegiraffe

Well actually, that's not strictly true. There'd be more deaths, because of covid.

You'd think right? So why aren't Pfizer reporting the All Cause Mortality data from Israel? If a drug company has good ACM data, you can bet your socks they will publish it

That same document gets updated roughly every week.

Here is the link to the Pfizer one

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/977005/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer-_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

There are many known unknowns about the vaccines, for example how they perform "in real life" to protect people once all restrictions have been withdrawn (the efficacy data is muddled by lockdowns, masks, distancing, etc). And of course, whether they have nasty or even fatal mid- to long-term side-effects which won't be known for months or years. We're only 3 months into the national rollout.