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Original poster

Why did the U.K. regulator not know of these issues sooner?

144 replies

Roonerspismed · 08/04/2021 08:55

Look, I get that medicines all have rare side effects. I get that.

But why did our regulator seem completely ignorant on the numbers? They said we had what - 5 cases - and it wasn’t the same issue here. For weeks.

Various EU and non EU countries had already picked up on it - weeks in advance.

We still said we didn’t have the numbers. Then it seems like last week they did more diligence and checked and we found lots more.

So - assuming the MHRA hasn’t deliberately hidden matters which I don’t think they have - then how is our data assessed? If we had 65 cases of this rare clotting issue in various U.K. hospitals shortly after a vaccine, why wasn’t this picked up/recorded/asked/reported? How are doctors and hospitals advised on this?

Why isn’t this being asked in the media? Isn’t this an absolutely massive deal? How can we have trust in the system?

There are now lots of women alleging menstrual changes. A lesser issue perhaps but still a big deal for those TTC or not - what is happening to those cases?

How can I gain trust in the system?

OP posts:
Dustyboots · 08/04/2021 17:53

You're right OP.

I already distrusted this government massively and have had doubts about the scrutiny and honesty of the medical profession for years.

This has taken away my trust completely, particularly at a time when I was willing to give a bit more and reduce some of my scepticism. My gut feeling told me wait and see with this vaccine. I wanted to trust and do what I felt was the right thing. But from now on I will always listen to my gut feeling. We have been lied to and there are many more lies, I'm sure, that we are yet to find out about.

IdrisElbow · 08/04/2021 17:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

worriedatthemoment · 08/04/2021 17:57

@Dustyboots then you need to wait and see with the others as well as these are also not risk free
We have a system for reporting side effects and its important people do report these so data can be kept up to date
I believe Germany also found more when they started looming closely once a couple cases stood out? Its only when if gets raised that data probably gets looked at
I believe Norway raised it first as didn't they have 2 cases at same hospital which is rare

Dustyboots · 08/04/2021 17:59

Do we know that people who have recovered from covid have immunity? I think not?

Why would they not @noblegiraffe?

www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

confuseddotcom090 · 08/04/2021 17:59

If it's the spike protein on both the virus and induced by the vaccines that is causing the bleeding/clotting events (to varying degrees, depending on the heterogenicity of the spike protein in each case), then it makes sense that COVID and the vaccines could cause similar problems.

worriedatthemoment · 08/04/2021 18:00

@Dustyboots i thought they don't know how long people have immunity for though hence how some have caught it twice

Dustyboots · 08/04/2021 18:05

The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.

It says this in the article I posted @worriedatthemoment

My friends who've had Covid were told by their GP that they'd have immunity for at least 5 months.

worriedatthemoment · 08/04/2021 18:17

@Dustyboots some people don't though as they have covid twice and 5 months isn't really long

SempreSuiGeneris · 08/04/2021 19:00

Noble given your scepticism about natural immunity post infection what is the basis for your confidence in longer lasting immunity post vaccination?

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2021 19:44

I didn’t say I was? Someone said that we could rely on natural immunity from people who had covid instead of being vaccinated and I questioned whether that was reliable.

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2021 19:47

There are other vaccines though. It isn't AZ or nothing. If people want to wait for a vaccine they feel more comfortable with then I don't think they should be guilted into it.

I didn’t say people should be guilted into an AZ vaccine. There was a poster who said that they thought that there wasn’t a good reason to vaccinate those in non-vulnerable groups at all. I.e. with any vaccine.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2021 19:49

@noblegiraffe

I didn’t say I was? Someone said that we could rely on natural immunity from people who had covid instead of being vaccinated and I questioned whether that was reliable.
Sigh. No, that’s not what I said.
noblegiraffe · 08/04/2021 19:53

You said “Many of the younger, low risk people who decide not to be vaccinated will either already be immune or will have a mild case and develop immunity in the near future.”

feellikeanalien · 08/04/2021 20:01

I was very concerned to see that the first named victim in the UK who died from blood clots was a previously healthy 59 year old man with no underlying conditions.

I am a similar age and have had the first AZ vaccine. I had it a week ago and still have feelings of nausea and my appetite has definitely been affected. I know these are not major things but I am now not sure what to do about the second dose.

bumbleymummy · 08/04/2021 20:04

Yes, and will therefore also be contributing to herd immunity, along with the groups that have already been vaccinated. That’s not the same as ‘we could rely on natural immunity from people who had covid instead of being vaccinated’ which makes it sound like I’m saying ‘nobody needs to be vaccinated’ and I’m not saying that at all.

If I’ve misread that, and that wasn’t your meaning then I apologise.

herecomesthsun · 08/04/2021 20:18

There was a case study last summer of someone who caught covid twice, around 6 weeks gap between infections. These were infections from slightly different strains of covid 19, confirmed on analysis, and it was formally written up as a case study.

So it has been known for nearly a year that it is possible to catch covid twice and that the gap between infections can be just a few weeks apart.

Also, the second infection, in this case, was more severe.

So it may be that for many people there is some degree of immunity for some months after catching covid, but you can't bank on it.

MissusAnthropy · 08/04/2021 20:19

@Boringlynormal

"I think the UK has completely failed us on this one. I had a jab that I should not have been given, in my opinion. I'm really angry about it as I don't feel confident taking the second one so will end up part-vaccinated as a result of coming forward when called and trusting the buggers."

You've summed up how I feel.

I work for the NHS. I'm pregnant. I was advised by our Obstetric consultant I should have the vaccine, on the basis there was no risk to me or baby. So I had it at 30 weeks pregnant. Due my second dose one week after my c-section. I will not be having it, seeing as though you're discharged with blood thinners as standard.

I also feel utterly angry that I was advised to, and subsequently had the AZ vaccine. I'm concerned for my baby.

Terracotta9 · 08/04/2021 20:26

I’ve had covid twice.

The first time I experienced it as a bad cold, the second time (6 months later) not even that. I just felt a bit headachey and “under the weather” for a day- if it hadn’t been part of a mini outbreak among colleagues I wouldn’t have even known it was covid.

Lady1576 · 08/04/2021 20:28

I agree - I don’t have a problem with vaccines having side effects. However I do have a problem that 2 weeks ago we were told that the rate of blood clots was the same as you’d find in the normal population. I was at the point where they had me (a strong Europhile) convinced that the Europeans had all gone mad. Now it turns out, they were right and we were misled. That’s a real problem for credibility.

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2021 20:29

However I do have a problem that 2 weeks ago we were told that the rate of blood clots was the same as you’d find in the normal population

It was the European regulator who said that.

Original poster
Roonerspismed · 08/04/2021 20:31

I notice tonight the government is talking about an alternative for under 40s. Presumably they didn’t realise how spooked people would be.

How many 40 somethings will accept the AZ vaccine?

OP posts:
Cam2020 · 08/04/2021 20:40

Having been on the pull.and flying long haul regularly (well pre covid) I can't get worked up about this. Both of those hold much higher risk.

I must say I thought the same thing. Funny how people accept risk in order to do something they enjoy!

Boringlynormal · 08/04/2021 20:45

I notice tonight the government is talking about an alternative for under 40s. Presumably they didn’t realise how spooked people would be.

Are they? Already? What was the point of the announcement yesterday then.

Thewiseoneincognito · 08/04/2021 20:50

I’m going to continue waiting before taking any of these initial vaccines. The knowledge on covid itself is only based on 1 year of infections, these miracle vaccines all appeared out of nowhere with very little study into efficacy and side effects and the air of ambiguity surrounding any side effects just doesn’t sit well with me.

I absolutely understand and respect the reasons why those with illnesses and the older folk have been so eager to take the vaccines, they offer hope and the potential to make a difference in the risk to those people. I want clarity and far more research into the virus itself and any concoction they create to beat this before I can accept a jab myself.

aliellerb · 08/04/2021 23:34

I shouldn't have been given this jab either, advice published yesterday says my condition is advised against having it (I have a blood clotting disorder and history of DVT). I'm terrified now and cross as I raised my concerns prior to the first one with my doctor and was told it was nonsense. Wish I'd waited for another vaccine.