Can someone explain to me...

[GoToSleepBabyPlease]

What's so special about COVID? It's not as deadly or as contagious as many other diseases we routinely vaccinate against, yet we're now talking about implementing ID cards- which civil liberties campaigners have fought against for decades, for good reason- so that vaccination passports can be utilised. Why?

Why is it not like every other disease we've encountered to date- offer the vaccine, people either accept it or take their chances with the disease, and then life goes on? We are already one of the most closely monitored populations in the western world when it comes to surveillance of the innocent. What makes COVID worth sacrificing yet more of our freedom for?

Very good question! Media hype is a powerful thing.

My understanding was that it is very contagious, far more so than the flu etc and that that was the problem. Happy to stand corrected.

It is different because it is a novel disease and is at pandemic stage, meaning it is at high levels globally. This means there is a high potential for it to get to levels that are out of control and collapse healthcare systems.

Once it is better controlled globally with vaccination (as is the case for most diseases) it will enter endemic stage with sporadic epidemics.

Where have you been?? Unchecked it overwhelms the healthcare system and means excess deaths both of covid and other causes which can’t be treated (due to the system already being overwhelmed with covid).

Someone has just woken up after a year asleep have they?

@RoseWineTime

Where have you been?? Unchecked it overwhelms the healthcare system and means excess deaths both of covid and other causes which can’t be treated (due to the system already being overwhelmed with covid).

Yes, and now that our vulnerable have been vaccinated that won't happen. So I'm failing to see the reason for ID cards, vaccination passports and other bureaucracy.

@megletthesecond

Someone has just woken up after a year asleep have they?

🙄

What other diseases we routinely vaccinate against have led to 125,000+ deaths (150k if you look at excess deaths) over the course of a year despite drastic prevention measures?!

@ladygindiva

My understanding was that it is very contagious, far more so than the flu etc and that that was the problem. Happy to stand corrected.

I'm pretty sure it's less naturally contagious than measles, which has a ridiculously high natural R number. So maybe more than flu, but not more than other diseases, which we don't demand proof of vaccination for.

It's because it's a brand new disease, about which we are still learning, and which made people ill enough to cause near collapse of health care provision (so much else having to stop for a while because hospitals couldn't do routine work when capacity taken by infectious disease wards) and wouid have caused. Economic collapse wouid have followed - supply and dstribution chains failing because of high sickness absence, plus panic

I think ignorance of the difference between a novel disease, for which treatment is still being worked out, and more established diseases which can be either controlled or treated more easily (or both) has been surprisingly hard tomdispel

We haven’t finished vaccinating the vulnerable.
Time to avoid the tinfoil hat brigade and do some proper research OP.

Measles is routinely vaccinated for, vast majority are vaccinated in infancy, no need for proof.

While we vaccinate our vulnerable, the virus continues mutating among the unvaccinated until the vaccine is no longer effective.

We need the measures until most people across the world are vaccinated. Only then will we be able to stay ahead of mutations.

@everythingthelighttouches

It is different because it is a novel disease and is at pandemic stage, meaning it is at high levels globally. This means there is a high potential for it to get to levels that are out of control and collapse healthcare systems.

Once it is better controlled globally with vaccination (as is the case for most diseases) it will enter endemic stage with sporadic epidemics.

How does a vaccine passport requiring an ID card (for domestic stuff, not foreign travel as presumably they'd just stamp your actual passport for that) help with global vaccination?

@Wolfiefan

We haven’t finished vaccinating the vulnerable. Time to avoid the tinfoil hat brigade and do some proper research OP.

But that's the end game and uptake has been very good. Why is proof needed?

@StillCounting123

Very good question! Media hype is a powerful thing.

It’s not the media hype though that has bought the world to a standstill and caused many many countries to go into lockdown for weeks and months or caused such a high death toll. I think it’s the fact that it’s a novel virus and so unpredictable. Also the fact that so many have died or had a tough time recovering despite lockdowns and other measures in place such as social distancing etc. We haven’t had viruses such as the measles cause a pandemic in this day and age. I’m sure if it was an issue now before the vaccine was available for it, then it would have had a similar impact as the coronavirus.

God. Not another one.

Is it just a bunfight you're after? or are you actually looking for people to come along and tell you you're right and the hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors are wrong? And that there is a plausible reason for why over 150k people in this country alone have died, despite months and months of lockdown, social distancing and masks ?

Maybe it's 5G...

I'm pretty sure it's less naturally contagious than measles, which has a ridiculously high natural R number. So maybe more than flu, but not more than other diseases, which we don't demand proof of vaccination for.

It's less contagious than measles, but even in the 1960s before vaccinations, there were "only" 100 or so deaths per year from measles.

As for flu, the stats over the past year have surely proved beyond all possible doubt that Covid is significantly more deadly.

@hodgebit

What other diseases we routinely vaccinate against have led to 125,000+ deaths (150k if you look at excess deaths) over the course of a year despite drastic prevention measures?!

But that's only because it's new, not because it's especially dangerous. It's no Yersinia Pestis. 150,000 from a population of well over 60 million.

Uptake has been very good.
Of the first vaccination.
We need two. The vaccination programme isn’t complete.
Anyway. Can’t argue with stoopid. I’m
Out.

Apart from those who are vulnerable that can't be vaccinated or are immunosuppressed and are likely to not have protection that a healthy person might.

@hodgebit

I'm pretty sure it's less naturally contagious than measles, which has a ridiculously high natural R number. So maybe more than flu, but not more than other diseases, which we don't demand proof of vaccination for.

It's less contagious than measles, but even in the 1960s before vaccinations, there were "only" 100 or so deaths per year from measles.

As for flu, the stats over the past year have surely proved beyond all possible doubt that Covid is significantly more deadly.

Measles had been around for a lot longer, so a degree of resilience to it was built into the population. If you introduced it to a population of people of all ages who'd never encountered it before, you'd find a different story.

@Wolfiefan

Uptake has been very good. Of the first vaccination. We need two. The vaccination programme isn’t complete. Anyway. Can’t argue with stoopid. I’m Out.

But why do you need ID cards and passports to give people the second vaccine? Why is it necessary for this one and yet none of the others?

@drinkplease

Apart from those who are vulnerable that can't be vaccinated or are immunosuppressed and are likely to not have protection that a healthy person might.

That's true for all vaccinations and all diseases though. Why is COVID different?

But that's only because it's new, not because it's especially dangerous. It's no Yersinia Pestis. 150,000 from a population of well over 60 million.

But it's 150,000 of those that were infected... which was a good percentage of the population, but it certainly no evidence that we've reached a "herd immunity" limit
and that the 30m vaccinations have been futile.

Also, look at Brazil... Manaus seemed to achieve a decent level of herd immunity as infections dropped after a torrid time earlier in the year... Then the new variant swept through...

@WhiskyIrnBru

God. Not another one.

Is it just a bunfight you're after? or are you actually looking for people to come along and tell you you're right and the hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors are wrong? And that there is a plausible reason for why over 150k people in this country alone have died, despite months and months of lockdown, social distancing and masks ?

Maybe it's 5G...

No, genuinely don't get it. If you introduced any novel disease to a populace- chickenpox, measles, flu, whatever- thousands would die. We can treat it and we can vaccinate against it now, so why isn't that enough? Why the ID cards and passports? I just don't see how COVID is exceptional enough to warrant it.