MHRA may change advice for young people receiving AZ vaccine

[IloveSooty424]

I just saw this news story on Channel 4 news tonight.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

It seems the MHRA may follow other European countries and Canada and advise that younger people should not receive the AZ vaccine. It seems the decision will be made imminently in the coming days.

I’m due to book my vaccine this week and don’t know whether to wait and see how this plays out. I’m 42. I’m also concerned that if younger people will only be offered the Pfizer vaccine it will slow down the vaccine programme substantially.

Any thoughts?

Given some responses here and in real life I suspect that younger people here will be harder to convince also.

It's sad. A mix of low understanding of complex statistics and social media seems to be giving many people the security of finding many people who agree with them, their anxieties, strengthening their misunderstanding as well as their fears.

I want to shake my next door neighbour's daughter. She has a lot of facts and figures at her fingertips but her analysis of them is so flawed. Yet she and her friends believe their interpretation over anyone elses. It is hard to hear her without wanting to sit here down in front of a Smart board and give her a lesson in statistical analysis!

The good news for everyone is this is a free country. No-one has to have any jab at all. Those saying they have been thrown under the bus- why? You don't have to have a second dose, you don't even have to have a first. Moderna was not on stream for UK for a month or two anyway and we have dedicated Pfizer to those at high risk for second vaccines, correctly.

I don't get the angst really, it's great that this is now in the open and we can all make more informed decisions than even two weeks ago. Also, there are other issues with the other vaccines which will only be revealed by lots and lots of people having them- I wouldn't say the safety profile of either Moderna or Pfizer is perfect...

I'm 50, had one AZ and will definitely be getting the second. I don't want covid, long covid and was fine with the first vaccination (if you had it two weeks or more ago, no reason to think there are ongoing issues). I just read an article about how severe Covid increases the risk of strokes, neurological conditions and anxiety by 44%. Don't want those either.

I think this is good news today in terms of transparency. I hope there's a programme of different second vaccines for those particularly vulnerable clinically to clotting/family history of this, everyone else has the same as they already have, and there's a slight pause whilst we get some different vaccines on stream (of course they may have their own risk profiles, as indeed Pfizer did in the early days).

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Given some responses here and in real life I suspect that younger people here will be harder to convince also.

It's sad. A mix of low understanding of complex statistics and social media seems to be giving many people the security of finding many people who agree with them, their anxieties, strengthening their misunderstanding as well as their fears.

I want to shake my next door neighbour's daughter. She has a lot of facts and figures at her fingertips but her analysis of them is so flawed. Yet she and her friends believe their interpretation over anyone elses. It is hard to hear her without wanting to sit here down in front of a Smart board and give her a lesson in statistical analysis!

I think younger were always going to be the difficult ones to convince ans many have said the reason for bojo to speak about the passport was for youngest to get the vaccine.

I don’t care If others they don’t have their vaccine. It’s their benefit vs the risk. Just wished people heard more and took their decision based on what the specialist say rather than what unknowns in mn / dm / bbc / etc say.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum I hope you're right, I'm worried I'd be written off as an anti-vaxxer! I had other horrible side effect from the pill that another GP tried to write off as coincidence, perhaps I just don't have a lot of faith in some GPs...

I think if you’re over 30 you don’t have a choice. You take AZ if it’s offered or you don’t get vaccinated and take your risk with Covid. Under 30s won’t be offered AZ anyway.

Yes! And with all the data available from today there will have to be a bit of a reset.

We all need to digest what was actually said. To take in the headline messages:

AZ is as safe as any vaccine for everyone.

The HMRA are adding a layer of caution based on vaccine roll out and supply specifically in the UK

Research is ongoing. There may be more changes in next month, next year, next pandemic.

Short version: take the vaccine you are offered!

@Lactuwoes

I just want to send condolences to the families who had a fatal reaction to the vaccine. They did what they were advised and paid a price for doing something they thought was for the greater good. They are not just a statistic to be bandied about.

I thought something similar myself earlier.

@MimiPigeon Well I'm clearly ancient at 33, at risk of blood clots so I think when the time comes I'll be talking to my GP...

This is really, really depressing news. Ok, I get the statistics and why this decision has been made, but I am not a statistic (nor is any individual person). I too have been refused the pill due to migraines with aura and I have also had surgery for a brain clots, due to an accident. Yes, statistically my risk might be small but I feel it is higher than the general population risk for those 30-50. I'm 39, so right in the middle. I have lost confidence in the AZ now, but what happens if I refuse it? Do I just have to go without? I'm passionately pro-vaccine but this has left me shaken. It's up to me what I put in my body.

@MimiPigeon

I think if you’re over 30 you don’t have a choice. You take AZ if it’s offered or you don’t get vaccinated and take your risk with Covid. Under 30s won’t be offered AZ anyway.

No, there doesn’t seem to be a choice at the moment. Perhaps that will change in the next few months, when other vaccines also become more widely used in the U.K. but if people are more worried about covid then they may not want to wait for that choice. I guess it really comes down to which risk people feel more comfortable with taking.

@PeasPeasPeas I'm really hoping that those of us with higher risk of blood clots won't just be left to it. I'm currently pregnant so it's a few months before I'd have to make any decisions regarding whether I'd take AZ, but I dread my GP surgery ignoring me and writing me off as paranoid because I have valid concerns. I remember my first migraine attack when on the combined pill, I thought I was having a stroke, it was absolutely terrifying.

@Smurftastic I hope so too. My husband was called because he has very, very mild asthma at 39 so they clearly take some things into account. I remember my first migraine too, also thought it was a stroke.

The risk of these brain clots is minimal but slightly higher from Covid itself than from the AZ vaccine.

That assumes that you catch Covid in the first place - that's not a certainty. I spent all last summer socialising normally and barely washing my hands, and didn't catch anything. Given that the entire country is about to be vaccinated, the chances of catching it are now minimal - especially for healthy under 30s. I don't agree that all those cautious about the the vaccines must be village idiots that don't understand numbers, I have a Masters in statistics and used to work in clinical trials analysis. I am just naturally cautious of new medications and potential side effects (some of which will take years to be spotted), especially for an illness which doesn't affect my age group badly. Partly because of my job - lots of drugs get licensed, then later recalled because of side effects that were only spotted in Phase 4. "What about the Pill" - I would never take that either. Everyone has their own attitude to different risks.

I just want to send condolences to the families who had a fatal reaction to the vaccine. They did what they were advised and paid a price for doing something they thought was for the greater good. They are not just a statistic to be bandied about.

I agree.

I’m another one mid 30’s, certainly not anti-vaccine but now worried about getting the AZ. I think it will be my age group that they will struggle to convince to get vaccinated now. Rightly or wrongly people have lost faith in the AZ one.

I think also there is some psychology surrounding definitely putting the vaccine into your body vs the possibility of catching Covid at all (and then the low likelihood of severe illness for the age group this affects).

@littlepeas

I think also there is some psychology surrounding definitely putting the vaccine into your body vs the possibility of catching Covid at all (and then the low likelihood of severe illness for the age group this affects).

This is one of the ways I assess the risk. One is possible exposure to risk, the other definite exposure to risk.

I may already be immune, I may be one of the 80% who have no symptoms, or I may be one of the 19.9% for whom it's a mild illness. Hell I've survived a deadly pandemic so far so I'm okay with my assessment.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum
They said your GP will get guidance set out and should risk access. It will be like the people that had AZ instead of Pfizer because of their allergies but the other way around

Typical that I was offered the Pfizer....which I couldn't have due to allergies! But now will be due second AZ...but have had several scares over clots in the past (including at the moment!)

And some about getting it.at some point because it is not going away and it is not only yourself you are helping protect.

It will be mostly a selfish decision (as in based on personal benefits) but some altruism is always part of vaccinations.

And, just as a by the way; don't forget that the great reduction in cases we will see over the next few months will partly be driven by it being summer, warmer, more outdoors. Next autumn/winter your personal risk will increase.

[quote HazeyJaneII]@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum
They said your GP will get guidance set out and should risk access. It will be like the people that had AZ instead of Pfizer because of their allergies but the other way around

Typical that I was offered the Pfizer....which I couldn't have due to allergies! But now will be due second AZ...but have had several scares over clots in the past (including at the moment!)[/quote]
I was actually talking about just your situation with my husband a few minutes ago. I will have the Pfizer if offered but would prefer the AZ because I am not allergic but sensitive to medication. I was wondering about under 30s with actual allergies and a clotting issue. Suppose the doctor would have to weigh up their advice. It is a difficult situation.

what happens if I refuse it? Do I just have to go without?
That’s what I think will happen. They can’t be seen to give people a choice. Otherwise everyone will start being picky and the system can’t accommodate that.

this is an autoimmune reaction ie an individuals body acting against itself - think: asthma type1diabetes eczema & ITP
DH has chronic ITP & has had AZ &another friend of mine has had another serious blood condition & ditto
both are fine & waiting for their next vaccine

The proportion of people who get of blood clots caused by covid are much higher &ditto with this reaction to heparin-
What we don't know is if any of these poor people had already come into contact with covid & had already got/or were getting small blood clots or if they had ITP . Many of the younger people who were vaccinated & reacted were (according to the presentations) hospital or care workers who were more likely to have come into contact with covid already & -as was stated- they would be overwhelmingly younger & female

My dh ITP was discovered years ago with a preop blood test as the symptoms are not obvious unless you have a very severe case - so it is quite possible they may have had it already.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes! And with all the data available from today there will have to be a bit of a reset.

We all need to digest what was actually said. To take in the headline messages:

AZ is as safe as any vaccine for everyone.

The HMRA are adding a layer of caution based on vaccine roll out and supply specifically in the UK

Research is ongoing. There may be more changes in next month, next year, next pandemic.

Short version: take the vaccine you are offered!

This.

But I'd also add that if you have specific reasons e.g. family or personal medical history that makes you think you'd be more at risk of clotting speak to your GP or other medical professional.

Given the very detailed questioning about my drug allergies I got before I had my Pfizer, I'd be quite surprised if they don't go on to assess risk for clotting in some way before giving the AZ in the future.

I'd like to know why the figures have suddenly increased? It was 30 cases a couple of days ago..
Did they say the increase is over the last week or when? (i missed the press conference)