Vaccine jabs every 6 months?

[Susan333]

Matt Hancock along with other government advisors have suggested that the vaccine may need to be administered every 6 months with Autumn boosters already being prepared for this year. I just wondered if everyone will be keen on taking them every few months if required and whether we will get the same enthusiasm as we have had for this current takeup of the vaccine?

I suppose it will become a routine where we pop down to get the vaccine every few months and become a norm of modern day life

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n664

@bumbleymummy

Distractions? It was discussed during the debate in parliament. I’m not the one trying to justify vaccine passport tiers by saying there are already tiers based on income. The solution to that isn’t to pile on more restrictions that will impact certain groups more than others.

But you aren't in Parliament. You are here, posting your views based on your own interpretation of some hefty science. You are using those cohorts as some kind of proof that your personal decision is all fine and dandy, just as you have been using children. If your decision was based in science you wouldn't need to rely on those too young or too scared to justify it!

@bumbleymummy

Great, an annual vaccine for something that is mild/asymptomatic for the vast majority of people. I really didn’t think people were this easy to manipulate. I’ve been proved wrong.

You mean like flu?

What?

My post about the two tiered system was a reply to moondust’s comment. It has nothing to do with me justifying my decision not to have the vaccine.

My decision not to have it is based on the science that shows I am in an incredibly low risk group and am statistically incredibly unlikely to be hospitalised or die. I’m happy to take that risk - it’s lower than many other risks I take every day. Why on Earth would I want or need to rely on anyone else to justify my decision?

@titchy Yep. Except the flu vaccine is only offered to the more vulnerable groups, they aren’t forced or coerced into taking it (many don’t) and no one has to prove that they’ve had it to go anywhere - even though they could, technically, be putting immunocompromised people who can’t be vaccinated at risk.

[quote bumbleymummy]@titchy Yep. Except the flu vaccine is only offered to the more vulnerable groups, they aren’t forced or coerced into taking it (many don’t) and no one has to prove that they’ve had it to go anywhere - even though they could, technically, be putting immunocompromised people who can’t be vaccinated at risk.[/quote]
No

What are you saying ‘no’ to. Everything in that post is factual.

Sorry!

No one is being forced to take a covid vaccine. As I have already said thoug, there is precedent for people taking vaccines for the benefit of others - rubella for boys, flu spray for kids. You've chosen not to have the vaccine because you're not a risk. Which is fair enough. But quite selfish IMO because the vulnerable are having to rely on others and you having the jab would be a net societal benefit.

I have to admit to being uncomfortable with the idea of vaccine passports though as a principle. Having to produce a negative LFT for admission to a festival is one thing, but an actual pseudo-cert makes me uncomfortable.

@bumbleymummy

What are you saying ‘no’ to. Everything in that post is factual.

Because I have stupid thumbs

That said, I am in favour of HCPs having to prove they're vaxxed, the same as they already have to for Hep.

That’s why I said forced or coerced.

People who don’t have the flu vaccine could be putting others at risk, but we don’t stop them going anywhere.

Infection also confers immunity so if I choose to gain my immunity that way, rather than having the vaccine, I am still contributing to herd immunity anyway.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

So. 98 year old man who could have had a couple more years of life isn't worth thinking of?

I've seen that written a few times and have never felt the need to type it myself; until now.

No one on this thread has stated " a 98 year olds life doesn't matter" but it doesn't stop the default setting of " granny killers" and " a 98 year olds mans life not mattering" regurgitated like a back firing third world toilet trying to score cheap points online from people who keep reverting to this unable to have a rational conversation who tend to be blessed with a fairly low IQ.

@titchy

Annual deaths have been far far far higher than normal. And that's despite lockdowns. If your GP is writing covid on death certs when the cause is flu they need reporting btw. Fortunately that's not happening. I can imagine you having a little rant to your GP though and your GP just smiling and nodding.

The excess death rate is around 80,000 above what we could have expected in 2020 with huge numbers of those deaths attributable to lockdown unless you disagree with the doctors who confirm missed NHS appointments, not accessing hospital after chest pain subsequently dying of heart attacks are all liars?

I may have to steal your lovely turn of phrase. The disdain just drips from it 😁

@titchy

If covid is on the death certificate, then covid has been a contributory factor to the death. Doctors aren't adding covid to death certs for shits and giggles. And there are far more people with covid in their death certificate than the official 'died within 28 days of positive' measure.

And there have been far more deaths than normal. Not a few more. Not more but still within statistical norms. A lot more.

So yeah, boring old facts actually do back up what the science says. Which is covid is responsible for 150k and counting deaths.

I'm not sure how many times this can be explained to you before it eventually sinks in..

In the UK, a Covid death is recorded if a person has died within 28 days of the first positive test.

However, what the figures do not tell us is to what extent the virus is causing the death.
In some cases, it could be a major cause. In others, it could simply be a contributory factor or perhaps just present in a person’s system when they have died of something else entirely.

Theoretically, a 90-year-old cancer patient already on palliative care could die but have coronavirus in their system at the time of death. That could be recorded as a coronavirus death.

Why do you think countries like India which has 20 times the Uk population havent 20 times the death count from covid and countries like south Africa with a similar population number to the Uk have less than half as many deaths despite having " the deadly SA strain?

A scary facebook avatar with a skull on cross bones next to it is not evidence of 125,000 deaths or 150,000 deaths which you have now conjured up.

@Cornettoninja

A person dying less than 28 days after a covid test came back positive of other things but counted as a covid death as it fit the legislation of being within 28 days has not "died of covid"

That’s far too simplistic without knowing in detail the damage caused by covid.

Regardless, there are a lot of deaths absolutely not counted because they pass the arbitrary ‘28 days’ but are almost certainly due to the impact of
a covid infection.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/01/almost-third-of-uk-covid-hospital-patients-readmitted-within-four-months

“Nearly a third of people who have been in hospital suffering from Covid-19 are readmitted for further treatment within four months of being discharged, and one in eight of patients dies in the same period, doctors have found”

Either way, it fucks up the healthcare system.

"“Nearly a third of people who have been in hospital suffering from Covid-19 are readmitted for further treatment within four months of being discharged, and one in eight of patients dies in the same period, doctors have found”

Given that covid kills mostly elderly infirm people with the average age of death above life expectancy, did you expect the small number of people who have been hospitalised with covid not to return to hospital statistically and be swanning off to vegas?

@Cornettoninja

My own personal health is a consideration for me having a vaccination but my biggest motivation is it’s impact on the chances of enduring further lockdowns and restrictions. If having my vaccination means that this last year is unlikely to be repeated then I’ll happily have a booster every year for the foreseeable if necessary.

if you prioritize government legislation over your own health more fool you

@bumbleymummy

What?

My post about the two tiered system was a reply to moondust’s comment. It has nothing to do with me justifying my decision not to have the vaccine.

My decision not to have it is based on the science that shows I am in an incredibly low risk group and am statistically incredibly unlikely to be hospitalised or die. I’m happy to take that risk - it’s lower than many other risks I take every day. Why on Earth would I want or need to rely on anyone else to justify my decision?

I perhaps wasn't clear enough. I do not give a flying fuck whether you have the jab or not. I also don't give a flying fuck whether you get Covid or not. But I do care that you are not sitting next to me in the cinema for two hours. And I am absolutely 200% fine about anything that is making sure that you don't.

And as for your patronising comments about my intelligence, I base my own intelligence on reputable standards and not whether or not a few (or even a lot of) MP's think something. You are allowed to be selfish, yes, Have at it. And so will the rest of us. I think you will find that there is far more support for the passports than for the Covid deniers.

Since when did having reservations, questions and objections to the concept of a vaccine passport with all the potential for inequity equate to being a Covid denier?

The excess death rate is around 80,000 above what we could have expected in 2020 with huge numbers of those deaths attributable to lockdown unless you disagree with the doctors who confirm missed NHS appointments, not accessing hospital after chest pain subsequently dying of heart attacks are all liars?

You need to look at excess deaths in the first half of 2021 as well.

Excess deaths is excess deaths? Of course lockdown has contributed to some people's deaths as you say. But the deaths, which will exceed your 80k by a lot, are excess. From any cause. Excess. What could it be about 2020/21 that has caused 120k EXCESS deaths. It's a mystery. Oh wait...

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Since when did having reservations, questions and objections to the concept of a vaccine passport with all the potential for inequity equate to being a Covid denier?

When those reservations are accompanied by weird science.

Many others are eminently sensible for the individual voicing them.

Sadly many are scared or convinced by some very odd and unsupported claims and interpretations.

Theoretically, a 90-year-old cancer patient already on palliative care could die but have coronavirus in their system at the time of death. That could be recorded as a coronavirus death.

Not on the death certificate. Only if covid was a contributory cause will it be on the death certificate. And the numbers with covid as a contributory cause are higher than the official gov number.

Your 90 year old will be on the official stats, but unless covid actually made them worse, covid won't be on the death certificate.

The big gap is people being admitted to hospital, tested upon admission, then spending more than 28 days in hospital. Covid killed them but they're not in the official figures because their test was over 28 days ago.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Fair point - it is tricky to weed out the weird from the authentic sometimes.

My biggest one is that we were told that even though vaccines have started to show that transmission is reduced, we should still be cautious and social distance. Then with these big events being trialed it's suggested social distancing could be relaxed. Which seems a touch experimental to me.

I probably just haven't found the right science bit yet though tbf.

It's not 'a touch experimental' it's extremely experimental. A global experiment that has had it's really good and abominably bad bits the world over.

The ongoing restrictions, trials of ways to open up various parts of the economy will chop and change for quite a while, I imagine. Israel has had some good outcomes, Liverpool too. It makes sense to trial a few ideas, the people going to the various gigs etc all know what they are getting themselves into.

The only downside to all the trials I can see is that the Eurovision Song Contest is going ahead 😀

@titchy

Theoretically, a 90-year-old cancer patient already on palliative care could die but have coronavirus in their system at the time of death. That could be recorded as a coronavirus death.

Not on the death certificate. Only if covid was a contributory cause will it be on the death certificate. And the numbers with covid as a contributory cause are higher than the official gov number.

Your 90 year old will be on the official stats, but unless covid actually made them worse, covid won't be on the death certificate.

The big gap is people being admitted to hospital, tested upon admission, then spending more than 28 days in hospital. Covid killed them but they're not in the official figures because their test was over 28 days ago.

I'm sorry but you havent a clue what you are talking about.. what part of if a patient has had covid within 28 days of death regardless of the cause of death means it will be on the death certificate for thousands and thousands of "covid deaths" cant you grasp?

Around 680k die per year in the Uk, millions have had covid with the vast majority asymptomatic so it follows thousands will have had covid at time of death.. they are registered as covid deaths. It's the reason the UK per capita has one of the worst death rates in the world due to this type of measuring compared to countries like India with 1.4 billion that have a death rate around 18 times lower per person.

@titchy

The excess death rate is around 80,000 above what we could have expected in 2020 with huge numbers of those deaths attributable to lockdown unless you disagree with the doctors who confirm missed NHS appointments, not accessing hospital after chest pain subsequently dying of heart attacks are all liars?

You need to look at excess deaths in the first half of 2021 as well.

Excess deaths is excess deaths? Of course lockdown has contributed to some people's deaths as you say. But the deaths, which will exceed your 80k by a lot, are excess. From any cause. Excess. What could it be about 2020/21 that has caused 120k EXCESS deaths. It's a mystery. Oh wait...

The first half of 2021 in early April lol... stop making things up as you go along to fit your narrative of covid being the bubonic plague