Brazil

[Unsure33]

Did anyone see the new report last night ?

So I know our government is donating to Covax, so is there international help from WHO to help them ? What is going on ? Are anyone like the Red Cross helping ?

To the next poster who mentions

It’s just flu
It only affects old people
Herd immunity
Lockdowns are inhuman
It only affects a small percentage of people.

Just watch the film
I am aware it’s a different variant but that can happen anywhere.
Those poor people
And their ignorant leader.

I know very little about Brazilian politics, but could there be a coup? Or even just an election where they bring in a better government to deal with this situation?

Oh okay, so your stance is that everything is fine in Brazil and there’s nothing to discuss? Fair enough, but people disagreeing with you isn’t preaching - that’s a really odd way to frame it.

That was for the comment from @Heathermary1995.

@Cornettoninja

even though parts of Brazil had 70% of the population with antibodies from the first wave

I’ve seen reports that these figures methodology was wrong, whether because of incorrect presumptions (that were widely believed at the time) like prevalence of asymptomatic spread or other factors I’m not sure. I believe they were also widely reported as fact before sufficient peer reviews had taken place.

I doubt these figures would have been scrutinised much publicly if we hadn’t seen such a large second/third wave.

Not "wrong" in that sense.

Seroprevalence studies indicated 76% of Manaus had been infected in the first wave. This is pretty much beyond dispute.

crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2021/01/resurgence-of-covid-19-in-manaus-brazil-despite-high-seroprevalence.html

What was "wrong" was the belief that this was sufficient to confer herd immunity - but they failed to take account of the waning in immunity levels,
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.16.20194787v1
or the emergence of a new strain (P1) that would evade this immunity.

[quote BlackCatShadow]There absolutely has been a link between countries with high levels of obesity and a higher death rate. Some countries with high obesity have had very strict lockdowns, such as New Zealand and Australia, and this has enabled them to keep their death rate low, but countries with high levels of obesity and less strict anti-covid measures have a very high death rate, such as the UK, the US and Brazil. Some countries with a less strict lockdown, but a much lower obesity rate have a low death rate, such as Japan. It's a combination of the 2 factors. brazil does have a high level of overweight and obese people. I think now, over 60% of Brazilian adults are overweight with around 20% classified as obese. I'm not fat-shaming. I'm just saying there has been a link with countries with over 50% of the population overweight have 10 times the death rate. It's shocking really.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n623[/quote]
I dont doubt there is a link between covid and obesesity.

And maybe much of the world is overweight.

But as my link says Brazil is about 94th out of 156 countries in terms of world obesity.
So going by that alone, Brazil should not be say 4th or 1st in the world as regards covid deaths.

@theotherfossilsister

I know very little about Brazilian politics, but could there be a coup? Or even just an election where they bring in a better government to deal with this situation?

Doubt about a coup.

General election[probably fair?] was only about 18 months ago.

@theotherfossilsister

I know very little about Brazilian politics, but could there be a coup? Or even just an election where they bring in a better government to deal with this situation?

Possibly, like you I’m not very informed on the political landscape in Brazil. The current situation seems to be currently taking up any reserves people may have but I think the aftermath will be rocky, I don’t see how a country emerges from the other side of basically being abandoned to their fate without some kind of civil unrest.

Our government have lots of questions to answer and certainly haven’t managed to please everybody but there has at the very least been an attempt to balance economic, social and health needs (I’m not saying any have been completely successful). I think there’s going to be an angry atmosphere globally for some years to come regarding the pandemic and it’s consequences. Some of it will be justified but some will be based on completely unrealistic expectations. I think Brazilian citizens will have more cause for grievances than a lot of places tbh.

@Cornettoninja

Oh okay, so your stance is that everything is fine in Brazil and there’s nothing to discuss? Fair enough, but people disagreeing with you isn’t preaching - that’s a really odd way to frame it.

I never said " anything is fine" but let's not terrify people that the "deadly Brazil variant" is killing more in Brazil than the uk as the number prove per capita it isnt

Brazil is a very diverse country in lots of ways.
The south for example, is generally a lot wealthier than the north[where Manaus is].
I think I am right in saying this.

tbh, I am surprised there are not more Brazilians on MN.

I think Brazilian citizens will have more cause for grievances than a lot of places tb

Maybe. But you are assuming that "ordinary" citizens are as covid compliant as the UK. From what very little I know, they are not.

Apart from the questions raised about the undercounting of deaths in Brazil, and it being a known issue. Surely you have to admit that 66,000+ covid deaths in a month is a problem.

Brazil has roughly 3x the population of the U.K. and I’m certain there weren’t 22,000 covid deaths here last month. If your figures are for death rates over the entire course of the pandemic then I think your argument might be slightly flawed if we’re discussing whether there is an issue in Brazil in April 2021.

Maybe mass graves and burial teams working round the clock because there isn’t enough time in the day to bury the dead is normal in Brazil. But I doubt it otherwise it wouldn’t be being reported across global media.

@lightand

I think Brazilian citizens will have more cause for grievances than a lot of places tb

Maybe. But you are assuming that "ordinary" citizens are as covid compliant as the UK. From what very little I know, they are not.

This may well be true. I don’t know. But Bolsonaro being famously anti lockdown and even this week calling for local measures to be relaxed surely can’t be helping.

Maybe mass graves and burial teams working round the clock because there isn’t enough time in the day to bury the dead is normal in Brazil. But I doubt it otherwise it wouldn’t be being reported across global media.

Shocking and so upsetting to watch, those poor people, their 'leader' is an absolute disgrace

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay No, I dont think their leader is helping things.

@theotherfossilsister

I know very little about Brazilian politics, but could there be a coup? Or even just an election where they bring in a better government to deal with this situation?

Brazil is the only country in South America never to have a civilian coup. Chances of that happening now are slim. It’s not in their nature.

The issue in Brazil is due to the COVID-19 being largely dismissed and untreated, no vaccination programme and an idiotic president

Let’s not forget the high level of illiteracy compared with other similar populous nations.

Next elections are in 2022. Rumours that Lula will run (not that long released from prison for corruption) are abound

He might get in too. Left wing, popular with the working classes. I think he would probably do a less bad job of being president.

The reason I heard that younger people were being seen in hospitals is that potentially to old are too sick or weak to travel and are dying at home.

This is a mess. But with Bolsonaro on board, it was always going to be.

Sadly the people of Brazil won’t know half of what is going on, as a lot of it is suppressed by the media.

This ever was.

Good article here comparing nations.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Brazil was touching 33k deaths weekly in the first peak. The UK 24k.
Brazil's figures are more shocking if you consider that life expectancy in Brazil is about 6 years less than the UK.

As with Mexico, crowded cities in Brazil with poor healthcare systems mean that many of those who'd survive an infection in Europe with treatment, die.

I agree. It’s horrific what’s happening in Brazil. I wish there was some action the world could take.

All they are doing are incubating new strains.

What I don't understand is why a virus raises such outrage when situations in which governments actually kill their own citizens, in their hundreds of thousands or even millions, goes unremarked upon and even unnoticed.

I suppose at least the 'it'll create variants' crowds are obvious about the fact that they care about the effect on themselves.

Is it that people want to point to other countries and feel superior? Why is death from a virus so much more noteworthy and murder and genocide? Or for that matter why are deaths from covid so much more of a focus and a tragedy than the hundreds of thousands of deaths from HIV? Is it because HIV is seen to be under control in the UK and so not a problem we're interested in? Is it because the hysteria of HIV is over and now it's just background noise?

It's amazing how selectively people pick their tragedies and concerns.

noteworthy than

I never said " anything is fine" but let's not terrify people that the "deadly Brazil variant" is killing more in Brazil than the uk as the number prove per capita it isnt

But it’s not specifically about a variant but the overall management of covid within one specific country - that’s your own interpretation.

Variants are of course a concern that crops up alongside it, but that’s not the only concern. Brazil’s healthcare system isn’t suffering specifically due to the variant they’re experiencing but because there is little to no mitigation policy from central leadership. Their president has declared social distancing as ‘useless’, advocates treatments that have little if any evidence and in any case are in short supply or stuck in logistics chains (apart from the discredited hydroxychloroquine which was manufactured internally early on) , refuses to implement any sort of measure and actively disrupts local governments from implementing their own, isn’t actively trying to obtain and distribute vaccines whilst their hospitals are completely overwhelmed. The shilling of hydroxychloroquine alone is deplorable, they’re letting people believe there is a cure and therefore they have a safety net.

The overall plan seems to be non-existent and largely based on letting it ride out whilst their healthcare systems collapse and seeing what’s left after.

Maybe. But you are assuming that "ordinary" citizens are as covid compliant as the UK. From what very little I know, they are not

That’s fair. I don’t think that absolves their leadership from any responsibility though, I don’t think a policy of no strategy is acceptable.

I don’t think anyone is picking their tradegies.

This is a thread about Brazil and Covid, which is why it’s being commented on.

Myanmar is a hideous situation, as are many other horrible world events.

But this thread is about Brazil. And is as newsworthy and open to discussion in the current health climate as anything else.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I don’t think anyone is picking their tradegies.

This is a thread about Brazil and Covid, which is why it’s being commented on.

Myanmar is a hideous situation, as are many other horrible world events.

But this thread is about Brazil. And is as newsworthy and open to discussion in the current health climate as anything else.

I agree, which makes me wonder where all the discussions about the other deaths in the world are? If we're all so concerned about people's suffering, why is covid the one and only thing people seem to be able to focus on? Even within the 'current health climate' where is the concern for people who are suffering and struggling because they have no income, no job, no education?

That concern gets shouted down very regularly. The debate will move onto the erosion of civil liberties instead.

Is there much point in rehashing an argument we’ve been having for a year.

Friend in Sao Paolo concurs that the situation there is horrendous. People are dying without being admitted to hospital. Very sad.

Brasil is a crazy place of extremes. I've seen the rich get richer and the poor stagnate over the last 15 years. The middle classes have shrunk dramatically. A divided society of closed neighbourhoods and shopping centres with armed guards vs the rest.

Corruption is ridiculous at all levels, selfish behaviour abounds, massive distrust of politicians, but almost god like worship of a favoured one.

It has large issues of social media passing of "news" so lots of conspiracy stuff.

With a population vs work problem, I've even wondered if letting covid rip is a calculated strategy.

And obesity is a massive problem. Those with money eat to extreme. All you can eat salty meat restaurants are amazing, but not healthy.

The exchange rate has halved against the pound over the last 10 years I think. Given the pound being weak, it shows how bad the Real is.