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It's over

161 replies

starfro · 02/04/2021 08:47

From within the Government the figures they are seeing suggest that the virus is receding far far quicker than their experts predicted.

Christ Whitty has come out and said that we'll never see a lockdown again.

We could release everything now, like Israel did when they were at a similar vaccination level, and see no uptick in cases. I'm sure they are going to continue to follow the very conservative roadmap, but really there is no need, as immunity levels from both vaccination and infection are sufficient.

Great news!

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 02/04/2021 12:58

@Littlefiendsusan

I think it's all over too, but not in the way you meant it Op.
Why, out of interest?
Moondust001 · 02/04/2021 12:59

Hospitals are full of people in their 30’s in Brazil and our vaccines are only about 50% effective on the Brazil vaccine.
We could open up but would really need to keep a close eye on how that variant spreads.
I think foreign travel needs to be restricted until there is a booster jab available to cover the know variants.

There's always one. Please provide the evidence that current vaccines are only 50% effective against any current variant, Brazil or not. Because the scientists say otherwise. Viruses mutate on a daily basis. It's normal. But generally not by enough to make vaccines useless. And there is no evdience that has yet happened with this one.

The reason hospitals in Brazil are full is because of an inadequate medical care system, lack of hospitals in many areas, and and idiot for a President who has done nothing at all because he doesn't believe in the virus (despite having actually caught it!).

Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady · 02/04/2021 13:00

*Littlefiendsusan

I think it's all over too, but not in the way you meant it Op.*

Oooo...cryptic! 🙄🙄

MarshaBradyo · 02/04/2021 13:01

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

*Littlefiendsusan

I think it's all over too, but not in the way you meant it Op.*

Oooo...cryptic! 🙄🙄

What could this mean I wonder..
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 02/04/2021 13:09

If the world's going to end anyway, what was the point of making all them thar microchips? Wink

Jo99996 · 02/04/2021 13:16

How about now we just do a Donald Trump

“Stop looking for it and you’ll stop finding it”

Close and burn down all the testing sites.
Change the legislation so that these lockdowns can never happen again then arrest all MPs that voted for it. It’s gotta be treason by now

Lweji · 02/04/2021 13:23

Because the scientists say otherwise. Viruses mutate on a daily basis. It's normal. But generally not by enough to make vaccines useless.

As a scientist, I can tell you that it depends on the virus.
As does the mutation rate.

There are concerns regarding vaccines and sars-cov-2 variants. Some have come out to suggest that we may end up needing new vaccines by the end of the year. Or annually.
Maybe not. I'm not that pessimistic, but I'm not very confident either.

bumbleymummy · 02/04/2021 13:24

@RaspberryCoulis NI is even worse I think. Click and collect from garden centres and no dates for anything past 12th April.

TheHoneyBadger · 02/04/2021 14:08

Lweji - would you say that it's not too optimistic to think that any variants that the vaccines aren't very effective against will only require 'tweaking' of vaccines which wouldn't take too long? I'm trying to have that hope.

I'm not up for banning foreign travel - in reality it would still happen it just means, 'the likes of you' can't travel. Obviously covid passports of one form or another and testing and/or 'at home' quarantining on return would help.

starfro · 02/04/2021 14:55

The only concerning variant (in terms of reduced vaccine efficacy) so far has been B1351. Pfizer are now saying their vaccine is very effective against it.

There may be a need for booster jabs in the future, but there is absolutely no sign that any variant is growing in relation to the main B117 strain. Immunity is holding up nicely.

I see the ZOE app has shown another big fall today, and continues to fall despite the relaxation of restrictions in March.

Given how quickly the virus was spreading in schools back in September, immunity levels must be much much higher through infection alone (kids aren't yet vaccinated). These higher immunity levels weren't taken into account in SAGE modeling, and are the reason they are so pessimistic compared to reality.

OP posts:
1dayatatime · 02/04/2021 14:57

The vaccine doesn't eliminate Covid or prevent people catching it. It should be viewed more as moving those infected down the ladder of impact. So without a vaccine those that would have died will instead have a nasty hospitalisation, those that would have had a serious illness now have a mild illness and those that had a mild illness would be asymptotic.

1dayatatime · 02/04/2021 15:03

@Jo99996

How about now we just do a Donald Trump

“Stop looking for it and you’ll stop finding it”

Close and burn down all the testing sites.
Change the legislation so that these lockdowns can never happen again then arrest all MPs that voted for it. It’s gotta be treason by now

Actually I think that is more a Chinese Government approach either that or simply lying about the numbers - despite the virus originating there China which has a population twenty times that of the UK (1.3 billion) has had a one twentieth (4,700) of the Covid deaths the UK has.
Dissimilitude · 02/04/2021 15:06

We're in a good spot, we're very likely to have a mostly normal late spring / summer.

The danger, however, is that a vaccine-escaping variant gets a foothold once we relax. No one really knows how this could play out, fully.

The evolutionary selection pressures on the virus, pre-vaccine rollout, favoured transmissible variants like B117 over things like the South African variant (with its greater, though not perfect, vaccine escape capability).

Once the population contains a large number of people who are immune to the older COVID variants, the selection pressures will much more favour variants which can partially escape current immunity.

This won't mean we're back at square one - some immunity is likely to carry over, and we don't know how much "genetic room" the virus has to alter the spike protein in a way that retains its core infectiousness but hides it more efficiently from our immune systems.

The real end to this, in my view, comes when vaccine capacity is so huge that we can vary a current vaccine to account for new strains, manufacture it, and deploy it to the population inside of a very short time frame.

We're probably a year or two away from that, but I suspect we'll be mostly ok between now and then with a booster jab some time later this year to cover the SA or other immune-escape variants.

So, I suspect this will indeed be the last total lockdown. Past the summer, I suspect we'll retain social distancing and mask wearing in many settings, for another year or two.

Bluntness100 · 02/04/2021 15:07

I think there is always some confusion on these threads, lock down is to prevent pressure on the nhs, it is not to eliminate Covid. Cases rising is not relevant if the over whelming majority of peoole get mild to no symptoms. With over 80 percent of those vulnerable vaccinated then it should lead to an nhs that can cope with those that do get it. Theoretically, hence why thr release road map is a slow one. An abundance of caution. And gets as many peoooe vaccinated as it releases.

Cases rising, is no longer the key metric. The key metric is hospitalisations, followed by deaths.

Jo99996 · 02/04/2021 15:15

@1dayatatime the hardcore lockdowners on here will argue that the Chinese figures are correct and that our numbers are bad because we didnt weld people into buildings and that we cant do as we're told like the Chinese.

also they'll tell you that we have covered up another 50,000 death or so

Cornettoninja · 02/04/2021 15:57

[quote Jo99996]@1dayatatime the hardcore lockdowners on here will argue that the Chinese figures are correct and that our numbers are bad because we didnt weld people into buildings and that we cant do as we're told like the Chinese.

also they'll tell you that we have covered up another 50,000 death or so[/quote]
I have literally never seen this posted anywhere on here (or anywhere else to be honest). Where the hell do you go to have a conversation like that?!?

Bluntness100 · 02/04/2021 16:50

I have literally never seen this posted anywhere on here (or anywhere else to be honest). Where the hell do you go to have a conversation like that?!?

To be fair I’ve read loads of posts on here saying lockdown isn’t strict enough and that the true death toll is much higher than is being revealed.

Yes the poster is giving it a bit of hyper bole but he or she is not far off the mark.

lavenderlou · 02/04/2021 17:02

It's all looking very hopeful, but I think we've lear ed from our past mistakes that it's best to exercise caution where Covid is concerned. Chris Whitty or Patrick Vallance was speaking at a press conference the other day (I was listening on the radio and missed who it was) said that we have underestimated the virus from the start so it's best not to become complacent now.

Re. vaccines, my (limited) understanding is that Pfizer is very effective against the Brazilian variant while AZ is about 50% effective. AZ has not proved usefully effective against the SA variant. The drug companies are surely working hard on adaptations to vaccines which presumably is easier than creating the initial one, but mutations are something that will presumably have to be dealt with for at least the next year or so.

I also agree with PP that it is a global pandemic so it won't be over until it's under control globally.

Cornettoninja · 02/04/2021 17:03

I’ll have to disagree with you there @Bluntness100.

There’s ridiculousness at both ends of the scale but that’s outrageous exaggeration in an attempt to discredit moderate concerns. Its nowhere near the mark! It’s as unnecessary as wagging fingers at ‘granny killers’ and calling people selfish killers for not wanting a vaccine.

Honestly I’m just tired of the dramatics people see fit to vomit all over the place...

user1487194234 · 02/04/2021 17:12

The problem in Scotland is that the SG seems hell bent on pursuing an unachieveable Zero Covid strategy ,purely for political reasons which hopefully will back fire on them
Case numbers will undoubtably go up but the important thing is that hospitalisations and death numbers are falling dramatically

IloveJKRowling · 02/04/2021 17:43

hospitalisations and deaths are falling because cases are falling / were falling until recently. We don't know at this point if the number of people vaccinated will have enough of an effect on hospitalisations and deaths if cases were to rise rapidly again (and there are enough unvaccinated at this point that this could happen).

Which is why they're being cautious about opening up. There's at least a 2 week delay between cases and hospitalisations and a longer delay for deaths.

And the more cases, the more risk of a vaccine resistant variant. Until a much higher number of the population are vaccinated that will remain a risk.

The vaccination program is a massive success so far but we're only part way there - and in the meantime restrictions are critically important, in part to ensure the success of the vaccination program and not undermine it.

bumbleymummy · 02/04/2021 17:53

There seems to be evidence that hospitalisations/deaths were falling faster in the vaccinated groups, so not just because of lockdown.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968977/COVID-19_vaccine_effectiveness_surveillance_report_February_2021.pdf

ThePricklySheep · 02/04/2021 18:04

[quote bumbleymummy]There seems to be evidence that hospitalisations/deaths were falling faster in the vaccinated groups, so not just because of lockdown.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/968977/COVID-19_vaccine_effectiveness_surveillance_report_February_2021.pdf[/quote]
Ahh, that would be why school age is looking a bit worrying. It’s actually expected. I forgot to think of it that way.

highroadtothedangerzone · 02/04/2021 19:15

I'm also feeling cautiously optimistic. But I'm also not sure about what we do when we are at the stage of covid becoming endemic. By that I mean, will schools still have bubbles that can "burst"? Will close contacts of people that test positive still have to self isolate? Or if we're at a point where everyone at high risk has been vaccinated, the we can just let everyone else take their chances a they probably won't get seriously ill? (Im aware that sounds really dramatic but it's not supposed to!)

PleaseReferToMeAsBritneySpears · 02/04/2021 19:16

@bumbleymummy

Percentages don’t sound great when you’re working with small numbers.

‘An increase of 20%’ sounds a lot worse than ‘we went up from 5 cases last week to 6 this week’.

Well the cases went from 800 to 950

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