To wonder about UK reporting of AZ side effects?

[Whosthebestbabainalltheworld]

Latest news suggests Germany has had 31 cases of rare blood clots and 9 deaths in 2.7m vaccinations with Astra Zeneca, but nothing close to that seems to be happening in UK. AIBU to wonder whether UK govt. is not being fully transparent as they don’t want a mass revolt with their “all eggs in the AZ basket” approach?

As a headline earlier read no blood clots with covid vaccine reported in Wales when I know there is one (because I reported it) it does make me think it's being represented in a certain way in the media (the article with that headline was that there was none in a study up to 31st January)

BTW I'm not saying there is a definite link in the case that I reported - she had other predisposing factors to blood clots so it may be a conicidence but all black triangle drugs have to all all potential side effects reported (I'm assuming the vaccines are black triangle because new drugs usually are for a certain number of years)

"close to" what? You do realise how miniscule 31 cases are/9 deaths out if 2.7 million is, don't you? And I'm pretty sure the last I heard was they were event related to the vaccine. People may just have had clots anyway and happened to have had the vaccine. Could just be coincidence really.. not a big deal

But pro rata to the amount of vaccines given out here would suggest 300+ clots in UK and 90 deaths... I just don’t get it.

But that's you assuming they are linked to the vaccine

It is a big deal because the type of clot is a very very rare one. It is not the standard clot a person would get for instance on a long haul flight. This type of clot is rarely seen and for the numbers of people to have suffered from them and deaths is a worry.

Do you think 100% of the people getting the vaccine are fit and healthy?

No. And we know people can just die of X,y,z. Doesn't mean that's down to a vaccine.
Stop scaremongering

@Tootsey11

It is a big deal because the type of clot is a very very rare one. It is not the standard clot a person would get for instance on a long haul flight. This type of clot is rarely seen and for the numbers of people to have suffered from them and deaths is a worry.

Show me evidence it's linked to the vaccine. 9 deaths in 2.7milliom is very rare...

unherd.com/2021/03/how-dangerous-is-the-astrazeneca-jab/

The type of clots being reported are rare, usually 3 or 4 per million per year. They generally tend to be in women and average around age 30. Contraceptive pill is often considered to be a cause. However, COVID itself can often lead to blood clots. Are these results higher because people have already had Covid and would have suffered a clot anyway?

I’m not assuming anything @Horehound, but you’re certainly not up for any discussion.

A friend who is a very experienced doctor laughed at the original reports of blood clots given that

1. this is a figure lower than the expected number of clots for that volume of people
2. the uk have prioritised older people who are more prone to this issue and have not reported an increase in such
3. the British press especially the bbc would love to prove a link given the need to sell papers or attract interest (remember the BBC widely reported the return of line of duty as a news story this week)
4. az are selling this to the USA and we know what they are like for litigation

Oh and blood clots are not rare think FOR from flying

YANBU. Even if there's no causation at all, if it's just an unfortunate thing that can happen to anyone, there should still statistically be some people getting blood clots within a couple of weeks of the vaccine. If none have been reported, it looks like they're hiding numbers- regardless of whether it's due to the vaccine or not. And it would be absurd to argue that the government has nothing to gain from hiding such numbers.

But from all the previous threads I've seen, saying anything less than glowing about AZ/UK vaccination program goes down like a lead balloon on MN.

@sushinelove interesting stats. So more people a year are more likely to get this rare type of blood clot than have died worldwide from covid.

@sushinelove

The type of clots being reported are rare, usually 3 or 4 per million per year. They generally tend to be in women and average around age 30. Contraceptive pill is often considered to be a cause. However, COVID itself can often lead to blood clots. Are these results higher because people have already had Covid and would have suffered a clot anyway?

This is the crux of the matter IMO. I you say ‘blood clots’ then fine - very common, noting to do other covid. But if you’ve this super rare type of blood clot that is suddenly showing up in larger numbers then that is at least cause for further investigation..

It's not scaremongering. It is something that needs thoroughly investigating.

Surely anyone can see that a clot that rarely happens, that has now occurred in numerous countries just after a new vaccine has been given is a little suspect.

Userg1234, as a PP already mentioned, these are a specific kind of blood clot due to a rare disorder. So yes, these ones are rare.

This is a figure lower than the expected number of clots for that volume of people

This is AstraZenica's stance and it's not true, though. Or at the very least it's an utterly warped way of thinking about it.

As I posted on a similar thread when someone made the same statement:

It is essentially saying that 10 / 10000 people who eat Granny Smith Apples get tummy bugs within 24hrs, which is lower than the 100 / 10000 who eat every other brand of apple including Granny Smith and get tummy bugs within a year. Even 1000 / 10000 would still be conflating two different statistics and datasets.

It's not exactly comparing apples with oranges, but it is slightly fudging things to make it sound like the rest of the world is mad... or at least uninformed. Just like AstraZenica are doing on their website right now.

It's not DVTs or PEs etc. It's an unusual and contradictory mix of blood disorders which cause clots throughout the body along with a low number of platelets. The last I read, all the patients who developed this disorder were young and healthy with no previous health concerns.

Now, I have absolutely no doubt that the vaccine is still 100% worth it if you are a certain age, or vulnerable, or live with those who are. I agree that the risk above is tiny, but for a lot of people so is the risk of covid. So in that sense I understand why people may be hesitant, and I believe the "misinformation" is coming from both sides - or at the very least, not as one sided as some posters on here make it out to be.

Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/

It's not scaremongering to recognise that there could be a risk, in fact it's probably sensible.

I think the UK's silence and the statement on the AZ website speaks volumes, tbh.

I mean I've got a blood disorder and have had dvt and PE at a very young age. I had the AZ jab about 2 weeks ago.
I'm fine.

The press stuff I read in the Swedish press talked about unusual coagulation issues in a minority of vaccinated people with rare types of blood clots in otherwise healthy people

This is AstraZenica's stance and it's not true, though. Or at the very least it's an utterly warped way of thinking about it.

I agree with is and it is worrying. They really need to issue a proper statement not brush over it. That coupled with the less than transparent reporting of their trial results is making people question them. You need to be trustworthy when you are dealing with something as serious as peoples health and AZ aren't showing that.

Do you Have a link go germany having this many cases ?

@Disneyblue

I mean I've got a blood disorder and have had dvt and PE at a very young age. I had the AZ jab about 2 weeks ago. I'm fine.

And most people will be fine, absolutely no one anywhere is saying that most people won't be fine. Out of interest when you got your jab 2 weeks ago were you told to look out for symptoms of these clots like people in other countries are?

Covid is far riskier for blood clots, far riskier.
The reports of these rare clots is a tiny %.
And it’s not proven to be causal..

But OP, in your post about the pro rata relationship between the vaccine numbers and the number of clots, surely you are assuming a link. Otherwise, if there is no link, then scaling up the German numbers would be completely meaningless?